Thread: World Record Red Deer!!!!......according to an American

Originally Posted by Rushy

I have exactly that same record but mine is the "while standing on one leg" variant.

I've been trumped!!

Originally Posted by Bavarian_Hunter

I've been trumped!!

But only by the left bower. VC has the ultimate standing on his head from off a beach ball

World record or not still a bloody nice animal.

Originally Posted by Dundee

World record or not still a bloody nice animal.

What one? two or four legs?

If an American is talking, they are usually lying.

She better keep an eye on it, seems to be plenty getting pinched lately.

Originally Posted by R93

I dont even look at or rate at Nz red deer heads that are over 330 odd that are not shot in either South Westland, Otago or inland Cantabury.
99% of the animals from outside of those areas that are over 330ish are not of original strain and are just plain bullshit presented by bullshitters imo.

Don't forget Gisborne. Some big heads up that way R93. I recently roughly measured a big 16 point red from that part of the world that went around 350+ DS (scored as a 14). No fences, lived free as a bird in a very large forestry block all its life. If memory serves me correctly they have Warnham Court and Windsor blood lines in this block...amazing what protection, management, a ready supply a tucker and good blood lines can produce!

Originally Posted by Nesika

What about Gisborne? Some big heads up that way R93. I recently roughly measured a big 16 point red from that part of the world that went around 350+ DS (scored as a 14). No fences, lived free as a bird in a very large forestry block all its life. If memory serves me correctly they have Warnham Court and Windsor blood lines in this block...amazing what protection, management, a ready supply a tucker and good blood lines can produce!

How many heads anywhere near that caliber prior to the 90's come out of Gisborne over 350?
Cyclone boler and the venison crash helped Gisborne out.
Banwell's books are all you need to work it out vol 1 is a good start.


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You are probably correct R93 however was just saying the blood line in this block as I understand it was from original NZ blood lines and not some imported genetically enhanced super sire. Interesting debate and one which the NZDA now have to deal with... pure original blood lines vs a wild stag stag with obvious high quality imported genetics.

What is the actual difference between the SCI and the Douglas Score , scoring systems ? I seem to remember the SCI system doubles all the longest points and the DS doubles all the shortest points and then only those who have a corresponding point on the other side ? If so the SCI score cant be compared to the DS scores of classic NZ heads

I had the opportunity to take a world record sheep while in the US... If I'd shot it with a pistol ...
I wanted a decent stalk, and even though I'm a pistol shooter, I think 25-40 yds for me is MAX kill shot on an animal- short of a contender with barrel chopped and a scope.
I turned the hunt down and it was shot the next day

Each to their own ..

my country's record on free range dates back to 1970 and gave a score of 237 sic and is far superior to that head! I never agreed with the rankings and scores, in hunting the most important is the throw and that can not be measured!!

Originally Posted by R93

I have a good idea where it was shot and if I am right, it isint free range. Unless it was let out 30 secs before shooting it. It is a pretty awesome head 45-47" in length and amazing brows and bez tines. That right side is almost perfect.
Goes a bit rough up top on the left. Dunno about it being a world record head tho.

I dont even look at or rate at Nz red deer heads that are over 330 odd that are not shot in either South Westland, Otago or inland Cantabury.
99% of the animals from outside of those areas that are over 330ish are not of original strain and are just plain bullshit presented by bullshitters imo.

This is absolutely true. Look at her lipstick which proves it was a truly wild hunt and genuine wild stag.Just because she is a woman and her hair looks airbrushed does not detract one iota that it is a true record hunt.

Apparently Barnes wasn't very happy with my or another guys comments about this head and have contacted the guide asking whether it really was "Free Range" This is what they posted.....



Barnes Bullets For Mr. Nick Clyma and anyone else who has any questions about the operation Jess was hunting on, Mr Gus Bisset wrote us the following email to share:

Mr Clyma,
Thank you for your post on the results from our recent free range hunting adventure with our very good friends Jessica and Thad from Barnes Bullets.
As you can see, in was a phenomenal trip with an incredible array of superb free range animals and in fact the stag Jessica took is indeed a new free range world record that we are all very proud of and thrilled to be a part of.
Having been a very keen hunter all my life and as an outfitter ( NZ Trophy Hunting, deer, chamois, pig hunting in New Zealand back country), I would like to point out to you that I am very well aware of the difference between true free range and high fence game ranch hunting. I do this for a living and we offer hunts in both environments to suit the requirements of our many international and local hunting clientele.
We have a 3000 acre high country game ranch near Kurow in the lower South Island where we hunt for a number of species including massive red stag.All our hunters who choose to hunt in this area are well aware that this is a high fence situation and are very happy to hunt here as it is brush covered hill country and provides excellent and challenging hunting for several species.
We also have access to more than 250,000 acres of privately owned sheep and cattle ranch country in the Northern end of the South Island where we conduct TRUE free range hunting for many species including some of this countries largest wild, free ranging red stags.
There are no game ranches within hundreds of Kilometres of the remote ,mountainous areas we hunt and it is more than 500 Kilometres from our own game ranch.
Up until 6 years ago, the properties we hunt up there have not allowed any trophy hunting to take place for more than three decades prior to this and poor quality heads have been taken out and selective culls have taken place to manage the numbers and the quality of the animals. There is an abundance of red deer in the region and on these properties they get to grow old and some grow very big.
I have included a link to a free range hunt we filmed last year on the same property so you can see the type of hunt we provide in this area. The hunter is Gene Gordner, a custom gun maker from Montana and he took a free range black powder world record at the time with his 10 bore flintlock. Kilimanjaro Rifles & New Zealand Red Stag - YouTube
There are sheep and cattle low fences on the properties as they are working sheep and cattle ranches. You will see this on the film but as you will know, all deer species are more than capable of leaping these 4 foot fences and they do so daily.

I agree with you that there is some misleading information out there surrounding free range hunting in New Zealand, especially with red stags and yes, it is very difficult to find a true free range red stag much bigger than 300 SCI. However, small numbers of very big free range stags do exist on a few large expanses of privately owned land where there is careful culling, very low hunting pressure and good quality sheep and cattle pasture is present for good nutrition. This is the case on the free range areas we hunt.

Mr Clyma, I take a lot of pride in my hunting business and am very pleased to have been able to provide such a great free range hunt for my friends and to take a genuine world record while doing so, was an unexpected but well earned reward for all involved.

If you would like to know more facts about free range or game ranch hunting in New Zealand, or even if you want to experience this adventure for yourself, please don't hesitate to contact me direct on info@newzealandtrophyhunting.com or awateresafaris@gmail.com.

Regards

Gus Bisset
Manager & Professional Hunter
New Zealand Trophy Hunting
NZ Trophy Hunting, deer, chamois, pig hunting in New Zealand back country



My personal opinion is that the term "Free Range" can still be used loosely and I can't be convinced that high fenced deer don't "accidently" escape or aren't just blatantly released into the Free Range area.
Australia in its true free range sense is stuffed really now. Half the heads in the record books are from NSW where there were no red deer liberations and have all come from escaped pen deer bred with superior genetics. It's the same here in VIC. I'm under no illusions about my big head I took a few weeks ago not having farmed genetics. which is part of the reason why I don't want to register him. In 2001 my old man took a red stag that was No. 20 in the Australian records with 270Douglas. He was a fair dinkum wild deer with no super genetics, now he's not even in there, my head makes him look like a 6 pointer. I agree its great having these monster deer but to me the true sense of "Free range wild deer" is gone forever in Australia. And by the looks of it, a lot of NZ

Hard to argue that the WORLD RECORD was in fact free range on a managed property.

However, small numbers of very big free range stags do exist on a few large expanses of privately owned land where there is careful culling, very low hunting pressure and good quality sheep and cattle pasture is present for good nutrition. This is the case on the free range areas we hunt.

I fail to comprehend the "well earned reward" and "pride" associated with this type of activity - from either the customer or business perspective.