Thread: World Record Red Deer!!!!......according to an American

[QUOTE=Bavarian_Hunter;151338]Apparently Barnes wasn't very happy with my or another guys comments about this head and have contacted the guide asking whether it really was "Free Range" This is what they posted.....



Barnes Bullets For Mr. Nick Clyma and anyone else who has any questions about the operation Jess was hunting on, Mr Gus Bisset wrote us the following email to share:

Mr Clyma,
Thank you for your post on the results from our recent free range hunting adventure with our very good friends Jessica and Thad from Barnes Bullets.
As you can see, in was a phenomenal trip with an incredible array of superb free range animals and in fact the stag Jessica took is indeed a new free range world record that we are all very proud of and thrilled to be a part of.
Having been a very keen hunter all my life and as an outfitter ( NZ Trophy Hunting, deer, chamois, pig hunting in New Zealand back country), I would like to point out to you that I am very well aware of the difference between true free range and high fence game ranch hunting. I do this for a living and we offer hunts in both environments to suit the requirements of our many international and local hunting clientele.
We have a 3000 acre high country game ranch near Kurow in the lower South Island where we hunt for a number of species including massive red stag.All our hunters who choose to hunt in this area are well aware that this is a high fence situation and are very happy to hunt here as it is brush covered hill country and provides excellent and challenging hunting for several species.
We also have access to more than 250,000 acres of privately owned sheep and cattle ranch country in the Northern end of the South Island where we conduct TRUE free range hunting for many species including some of this countries largest wild, free ranging red stags.
There are no game ranches within hundreds of Kilometres of the remote ,mountainous areas we hunt and it is more than 500 Kilometres from our own game ranch.
Up until 6 years ago, the properties we hunt up there have not allowed any trophy hunting to take place for more than three decades prior to this and poor quality heads have been taken out and selective culls have taken place to manage the numbers and the quality of the animals. There is an abundance of red deer in the region and on these properties they get to grow old and some grow very big.
I have included a link to a free range hunt we filmed last year on the same property so you can see the type of hunt we provide in this area. The hunter is Gene Gordner, a custom gun maker from Montana and he took a free range black powder world record at the time with his 10 bore flintlock. Kilimanjaro Rifles & New Zealand Red Stag - YouTube
There are sheep and cattle low fences on the properties as they are working sheep and cattle ranches. You will see this on the film but as you will know, all deer species are more than capable of leaping these 4 foot fences and they do so daily.

I agree with you that there is some misleading information out there surrounding free range hunting in New Zealand, especially with red stags and yes, it is very difficult to find a true free range red stag much bigger than 300 SCI. However, small numbers of very big free range stags do exist on a few large expanses of privately owned land where there is careful culling, very low hunting pressure and good quality sheep and cattle pasture is present for good nutrition. This is the case on the free range areas we hunt.

Mr Clyma, I take a lot of pride in my hunting business and am very pleased to have been able to provide such a great free range hunt for my friends and to take a genuine world record while doing so, was an unexpected but well earned reward for all involved.

If you would like to know more facts about free range or game ranch hunting in New Zealand, or even if you want to experience this adventure for yourself, please don't hesitate to contact me direct on info@newzealandtrophyhunting.com or awateresafaris@gmail.com.

Regards

Gus Bisset
Manager & Professional Hunter
New Zealand Trophy Hunting
NZ Trophy Hunting, deer, chamois, pig hunting in New Zealand back country


Im calling Bullshit here.

We also have access to more than 250,000 acres of privately owned sheep and cattle ranch country in the Northern end of the South Island where we conduct TRUE free range hunting for many species including some of this countries largest wild, free ranging red stags.
There are no game ranches within hundreds of Kilometres of the remote ,mountainous areas we hunt and it is more than 500 Kilometres from our own game ranch.

Considering the size of the south island(800km long) there is not many places that are "hundreds of kilometers" from deer farms. pretty much every where is close to a deer farm some where.

Anyone thought it might be an sci record for a woman?

Originally Posted by Bavarian_Hunter

Apparently Barnes wasn't very happy with my or another guys comments about this head and have contacted the guide asking whether it really was "Free Range" This is what they posted.....

where did you make the comments ? Just curious ..

It was on their Facebook page a while back. I don't understand how every yank that comes over thinks they're going to shoot a world record. I wonder how many world record heads are on walls in North America with a duped bloke who's paid thousands of dollars for thinking he/she's it and a bit.

Wirehunt - No, it was number one wild red stag of all time.

I guess if you have a few world record heads pre measured in the crush you advertise and sell them in order so each successive one is the new world record.
Be silly to sell the biggest of the season first if you had others that would also beat the current record.

I may be wrong but...

....the largest free range truly wild red stag shot in NZ was taken in 1924. Douglas score 394 3/4, easily found on Google.

Given Douglas score is measurement of smallest tine doubled, and SCI is adding up of length of every tine, one would imagine the SCI score of this head would be over 400 easily.

World record for a lady makes sense, overall world record I'd find hard to believe (not a dig at you BH).

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I guess if you have a few world record heads pre measured in the crush you advertise and sell them in order so each successive one is the new world record.
Be silly to sell the biggest of the season first if you had others that would also beat the current record.

Thats how it is at spey creek haha

. Spey Creek is the place to go if you are after world records! Our hunters have shot three of the four largest stags in the world (#1, #3, and #4). They currently hold the #2 and #3 for rifle, the #1 and #2 for archery, and the #1 for cross bow!

Spey Creek Trophy Hunting New Zealand Red Stag Elk Hunts Kaikoura Lodge Deer Hunt Trophies Bow Rifle

Originally Posted by JP100

Thats how it is at spey creek haha



Spey Creek Trophy Hunting New Zealand Red Stag Elk Hunts Kaikoura Lodge Deer Hunt Trophies Bow Rifle

Those things are vile!

Absolute rubbish heads. If anything they should be culled out of exsistance imo.

In saying that I bet the guys who shot them are pretty stoked

Gussy B is just doing his job mate. He knows where it is at. I have and will hunt with him anytime. He is handy shooting from a machine as well.

Originally Posted by Toby

Absolute rubbish heads. If anything they should be culled out of assistance imo.

Toby don't think of them as deer. Think of them as product units that a business has developed to meet a growing demand. One of the primary tenets of good business is to give customers what they want. The safari parks through selective breeding and good stock feed management have continued to produce animals that meet the demand of global trophy hunters to achieve higher and higher scoring heads to set new world records. As grotesque as they may look to the hunting purest that covets the perfect twelve or fourteen point red stag, these forty plus point animals make big money for their breeders/owners. There is a stag on a neighbours property here that had forty eight points as a spiker and there are at least three adult stags over the fence that are worth at least fifty grand each where they are standing. Think of my neighbour as a wholesaler and the safari parks as a retailer and you will get the picture that is a far better business to be in than my selling a run of the mill spiker to the meat works for five or six hundred dollars.

Undoubtedly most of our original release bloodlines have been altered by escape and other releases to some extent.

My question is.
If one of these stags(probably die) or there offspring were released truly wild what would they likely develop head wise?
Would they be smaller lighter timber, points all over the place like a mad women's shit.
Or smaller lighter timber more traditional looking?

I think the former.

What say you lot?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Undoubtedly most of our original release bloodlines have been altered by escape and other releases to some extent.

My question is.
If one of these stags(probably die) or there offspring were released truly wild what would they likely develop head wise?
Would they be smaller lighter timber, points all over the place like a mad women's shit.
Or smaller lighter timber more traditional looking?

I think the former.

What say you lot?

VC the access to good feed would be a large determinant in this scenario but it is likely the head would Still tend toward the mad woman's shit but just with fewer points.

Does the enviroment do much to the head.

I can't imagine a stag with a head like that doing to well in proper bush

Toby, a classic example of what the environment does to heads and the size of the animals is to see the Stewart Island Whitetail (nutrition, nutrition)...in comparison, the whitetails I saw in Manitoba and Ontario are huge animals...I had the privilege of viewing a guy's Whitetail trophies...they were utterly fantastic...and they were not 'hedgehog' heads, but the real classic numbers...a friend of mine in upland Quebec, shot a two and a half year old whitetail stag...120 pounds of meat!