Thread: The ‘controversial.222’

Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

@Seventenths was that the Hornady 55gr SP you use in the .223?

The photo shown was a 55 gr Sierra I recovered in a Sika hind I shot with the .223 through right side chest and was recovered under the skin on the other side.

In the .222 I was shooting deer with 50 gr SP's but I never recovered any

Had my .222 out in the bush today. Bumped into a red stag at fairly close range, but the right shot wasn’t on offer so off he walked.

Maybe next time....

took its big brother out for hare snipe tonight...the 22-250
first customer hundy yards....bang and big cloud of fluff told me a hit....then another popped up moving away,closer to 200 yards
it stopped halfway up bank at 200 yards...Xhairs on high shoulder...bang and it went out of sight
picked up first...no neck or shoulders.....2nd one was there too...no shoulders as such,lungs hanging out...AND no tail...I had shot it off with same rifle 2 weeks ago,the first shot in anger from it before it sighted in properly........stoked. would be confident to take deer at 200 now no question at all about it.

Been a while, but took down a fallow yearling today with my Best Stuff Available .222.
Slightly quartering on at about 40yds, busted onside from leg, minced top of the heart and bottom of the lungs. Bullet lodged in ribs on the offside. 50gr federal factory. As you can see from the photos, one leg completely wasted.

yeah but thats not much bigger than the hares LOL.....perfect cartridge for the wee fallow...

Not that long ago I took my 243 and cheap factory ammo out and could not stop a hare with it. Every one was a runner.

So cartridge is not really apples with apples. Loads matter.

Seen goats shrugging off 7mm RUM and then picking them off afterwards with a 223 and 50gr V-max

Problem I have seen is a guy shooting deer with a .223 and they all drop like a stone. Then he puts three rounds into an excited deers chest and it just up and buggers off and he can't figure out why. They kill so well in the right spot people start using them carelessly. Not a "shoot the big bit" round.

They are very little.

I've shot a fair number of deer, with my vixen .222, and thousands of goats, I liked the Norma 55 gr and Sako 50gr soft points, was boxes of them around the farm, from Dad and his mates, from his time culling threw the 60-70's, I had a good run with the .222 and don't recall loosing a deer with it, doubt i fired a shot at one beyond 150m, get close, pick your shot, Base of neck was my favorite, quick follow up shot if necessary, One Major disadvantage, was/is the lake of penetration, a exit wound, makes for a better blood trail, and quicker death/bleed out, than as single entrance wound.
I was a good cal for culling, due to low noise, and light weight of ammo, but often we had to pass up a animal, due to poor shot angles, that a .243, 308, 270, would not struggle with,
It also meant more belly crawling, threw wet scrub and grass, than I had to with the .270, In the late 80's deer numbers really dropped, threw much of the south island, tussock country and bush fringes, I took to heavier cal with increased range and power.
Much has changed, we have ammo/bullet choices and suppressors/range finders, gear that we couldn't even have dreamed, about 30-40 years ago,
I still take the old Vixen .222 for a stroll/hunt now and again, mostly, just cause it brings back memory's, of a simpler time, it still get the job done if I do my part, But if am going deer stalking or far from home, take a 7x57, .260, 6mm rem, you get the picture.

Im probably starting to repeat myself now...

Modern hand-loading and decent projectiles has made a big difference to the 222/223, and with the .223 faster twists and heavier bullets too.

When I started using Barnes 55 grn in my .223 I thought I had really hit pay dirt. But they are nothing compared to the 75-85 gr class target bullets (I use 77 Sierra TMK) at circa 2900 fps - I get good kills with them out to 300 yards.

But shot placement is still the most important factor. I prefer the crease shot unless I'm close enough for a confident neck shot. Even the lighter bullets I use on Wallaby do an OK job if you shoot with care as @southernman and @Hunter_Nick have demonstrated.

So I've shot 14 deer for 15 shots with my .223 so far this year. Mostly Fallow which are much easier to kill with the .223/.22 than Reds. The extra shot was a Red stag that I muffed the shot on and hit forward and low of the crease at 250 yards.

This is the from last week. 239 yards, 52 grn Targex bullet while chasing Wallaby. Typical blood shot damage (and bugger all energy - about 600 ft lb, so its physical damage and trauma that they rely on). It died on the spot quite quickly.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Im probably starting to repeat myself now...

Modern hand-loading and decent projectiles has made a big difference to the 222/223, and with the .223 faster twists and heavier bullets too.

When I started using Barnes 55 grn in my .223 I thought I had really hit pay dirt. But they are nothing compared to the 75-85 gr class target bullets (I use 77 Sierra TMK) at circa 2900 fps - I get good kills with them out to 300 yards.

But shot placement is still the most important factor. I prefer the crease shot unless I'm close enough for a confident neck shot. Even the lighter bullets I use on Wallaby do an OK job if you shoot with care as @southernman and @Hunter_Nick have demonstrated.

So I've shot 14 deer for 15 shots with my .223 so far this year. Mostly Fallow which are much easier to kill with the .223/.22 than Reds. The extra shot was a Red stag that I muffed the shot on and hit forward and low of the crease at 250 yards.

This is the from last week. 239 yards, 52 grn Targex bullet while chasing Wallaby. Typical blood shot damage (and bugger all energy - about 600 ft lb, so its physical damage and trauma that they rely on). It died on the spot quite quickly.

Attachment 154293
Attachment 154294

What action are you using the 77 grain pills in?

On the good old Sako Vixen a long 50 grain or regular 55 grain soft point is about the limit for the magazine box and well.

Originally Posted by caberslash

What action are you using the 77 grain pills in?

On the good old Sako Vixen a long 50 grain or regular 55 grain soft point is about the limit for the magazine box and well.

1:8 Tikka. Standard .223 mag @ 2.3" OAL. The 77 Sierra TMK are designed for short AR mags so work well seated in.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Im probably starting to repeat myself now...

Modern hand-loading and decent projectiles has made a big difference to the 222/223, and with the .223 faster twists and heavier bullets too.

When I started using Barnes 55 grn in my .223 I thought I had really hit pay dirt. But they are nothing compared to the 75-85 gr class target bullets (I use 77 Sierra TMK) at circa 2900 fps - I get good kills with them out to 300 yards.

But shot placement is still the most important factor. I prefer the crease shot unless I'm close enough for a confident neck shot. Even the lighter bullets I use on Wallaby do an OK job if you shoot with care as @southernman and @Hunter_Nick have demonstrated.

So I've shot 14 deer for 15 shots with my .223 so far this year. Mostly Fallow which are much easier to kill with the .223/.22 than Reds. The extra shot was a Red stag that I muffed the shot on and hit forward and low of the crease at 250 yards.

This is the from last week. 239 yards, 52 grn Targex bullet while chasing Wallaby. Typical blood shot damage (and bugger all energy - about 600 ft lb, so its physical damage and trauma that they rely on). It died on the spot quite quickly.

Attachment 154293
Attachment 154294

We should stop calling them target bullets. It puts people off.

Heavy for callibre, high sectional density, non-bonded frangible projectiles launched sub 2900 ft/sec is a mouthful.

Kill like the Hammer of Thor. I'm going back to 6.5x47 for this reason.

Saw two deer shot with 270s and factory ammo yesterday. Very underwhelming. Small bonded bullet probably traveling at .303 speeds from 22" suppressed barrels. Very small exit wounds. Red and a Fallow took 3 each.

On the block we took Muz and Rambo to. Saw 200 deer in 40 min.

If I could modify a medium action Sako to take a 223 with room to seat long projectiles out I would be building one.

so Tussock you saw with poohseventy the same thing you have just said about trebly....shot placement and decent load choice is everything....
strangely enough Fallow are my nemisis animal with the poohseventy....always seem to cock it up with placement somehow...Rumpy has seen me do it twice....got both deer eventually but neither was pretty shooting.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so Tussock you saw with poohseventy the same thing you have just said about trebly....shot placement and decent load choice is everything....
strangely enough Fallow are my nemisis animal with the poohseventy....always seem to cock it up with placement somehow...Rumpy has seen me do it twice....got both deer eventually but neither was pretty shooting.

That's my point. Some terrible ammo out there. Case matters little. Rules are always the same. You need to hit the right bit.

Big case like 270, especially now ammo is loaded down for old actions, can have a projectile that sails through with little effect.

A target bullet that's not built for weight retention might kill well at the same slow speed.

Slow hard projectiles with high sectional density are probably the worst.

Apples with apples.

The whole argument really indicates size does not matter. It's the right bullet in the right place regardless of cartridge capacity.

I had promised a deer for the NZDA dinner if I could get one, and needed one for a soup kitchen I regularly donate to.

So I went for a hunt last night. Home 2am. the deadly .223

77 grn Sierra TMK

2 Fallow @ 148 yards. They were feeding around in the scrub and I was just able to pick the black one's crease out through the trees. Bullet exited opposite shoulder. Ran about 15 yards.
The other one ran into the clear and succumbed to a low crease shot.

Then I staked out a spot until dark and right on last light a small velvety came out. 259 yards and I could only see his neck and head. Bang flop, as they say.

When using a good projectile a .222 and .223 were emphatic and fast killers out to 300 metres on large Reds and Sika.
Loved the Barnes 52 grain x bullet and Swift Scirrocco 70 grain.