Thread: .223 can knock over a stag?

No. Don't bother.



Doesn't work. Unethical. Don't try.

(Ok so neither was a "stag" but the top one was a Wapiti/Red Cross and was a massive animal.)

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

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No. Don't bother.

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Doesn't work. Unethical. Don't try.

(Ok so neither was a "stag" but the top one was a Wapiti/Red Cross and was a massive animal.)

Listen Rambo, for most it is not a sensible calibre to shoot large animals with, how many have you just injured and left (full of small calibre holes) to hide somewhere and die a slow and painfull death? you'll not be admitting to that anytime soon huh?. Go back to poking holes in hajies and slims with pissant 556, a newby does not need to be carting a .223 to shoot at large animals, and he certainly doesn't need to get the idea they are going to put in an ambush on him so he better carry big mags to supress them with.

Most proper hunters get by with one shot, of adequate bullet construction, of adequate diameter and weight, and good placement.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Listen Rambo, for most it is not a sensible calibre to shoot large animals with, how many have you just injured and left (full of small calibre holes) to hide somewhere and die a slow and painfull death? you'll not be admitting to that anytime soon huh?. Go back to poking holes in hajies and slims with pissant 556, a newby does not need to be carting a .223 to shoot at large animals, and he certainly doesn't need to get the idea they are going to put in an ambush on him so he better carry big mags to supress them with.

Most proper hunters get by with one shot, of adequate bullet construction, of adequate diameter and weight, and good placement.

Hope you never fall off your horse, sounds like its a hell of a long way down.

James given your age I'm wondering if your enquiry was more to do with what calibre to choose. It depends on your target. Whilst you might be on a tight budget, I suggest you hold to the 'norm' that .223 is great for your lighter/smaller animals, you need the bigger bullet to quickly and humanely drop a bigger animal. Yes .308 comes to mind. If you only own one, borrow the other if you can if the hunting opportunity arises

Listen Rambo, for most it is not a sensible calibre to shoot large animals with, how many have you just injured and left (full of small calibre holes) to hide somewhere and die a slow and painfull death?

One. There you go. I've shot seven deer with it in the the last 10 months. Eight if you count the one I couldn't find.

Rambo? Was that really necessary?

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

Rambo? Was that really necessary?

That was completely unnecessary, and reflects badly on the poster

Personally I would not pick a .223 in any platform to hunt deer, it's capable for it-just.

As has been said your margin of error is very small with .223 even with the right style of projectile.

If looking to buy a first rifle, but still wanting to have cheep ammo available for practice I would recommend .308. But good ammo for hunting,it's the cheapest part of the hunt and we owe it the the things we hunt to kill them as fast as we can

If you already have access to a .223 and nothing else then don't let that put you off hunting, your just going to need to have a very good understanding of anatomy and the skills to place the tiny bullet in the right place when in a state of excitement.
And most importantly be prepared to not shoot unless you get that perfect shot, this is harder in the field than talking/thinking about it at home

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

One. There you go. I've shot seven deer with it in the the last 10 months. Eight if you count the one I couldn't find.

Rambo? Was that really necessary?

Probably not, was in a hurry.

Clearly, you are happy to shoot large animals with an inadequate for task tool, nothing I can or will say is going to change your m/o, just as you will never convince me to change mine, which by the way is to use a projectile that always punches deep, no matter what the angle, and loses enough off the nose to generate secondary wounding, and expands to create a decent wound channel, with more than the generally accepted minimum energy levels.

The scary thought for me, is that an inexperienced young fella reading/listening to these types of ....... debate, gets thinking he can run around with a .223 and "knock over stags", the fact that it is possible and has been done lots of times does not make it eithical. There are some states in the US and hunting areas around the world where it is illegal to use calibres that small even on smaller deer. There is a reason for that.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Probably not, was in a hurry.

Clearly, you are happy to shoot large animals with an inadequate for task tool, nothing I can or will say is going to change your m/o, just as you will never convince me to change mine, which by the way is to use a projectile that always punches deep, no matter what the angle, and loses enough off the nose to generate secondary wounding, and expands to create a decent wound channel, with more than the generally accepted minimum energy levels.

The scary thought for me, is that an inexperienced young fella reading/listening to these types of ....... debate, gets thinking he can run around with a .223 and "knock over stags", the fact that it is possible and has been done lots of times does not make it eithical. There are some states in the US and hunting areas around the world where it is illegal to use calibres that small even on smaller deer. There is a reason for that.

The comments on regulations in the US are not unique to there. To hunt on DOC land here in NZ, we are require to use a 222 or bigger(so no 17 Fireball on DOC land). The now non-existent Sambar Deer Foundation also required a 270 or bigger for Sambar.

Also, it would be interesting to know how many deer were killed with the NZ Govenment (NZFS) supplied 222 ammo during the culling days?

Yes easy. I shoot 75-80% of my deer with my 223, have done for the last 5-10 years and I am usually shooting several deer a month. This past month I've shot 9 deer, all with the 223, all one shot. The last three have been red stags. I'll neck or head shoot most animals out to 100m, base of the neck to 150m and on a smaller red deer front shoulder out to 250m. That's about where I choose to get closer. I am only using 55gn hornady training ammo through mine.

It is a very effective calibre, in the right hands exceptionally accurate, but you NEED to know what your capabilities as a shooter are, what shots to take in what situations and always be prepared to walk away. I would not take my 223 away in the roar, a big red stag fired up is a different ball game to one relaxing in a scrubby gully. But regardless of calibre you need to place your shot carefully.

I have walked away from several animals because I was carrying a 223, and was not comfortable shooting them in that situation. I have only needed to back up shoot 5 or 6 that I can remember, certainly no more than some 2nd, 3rd or even 4th shots I've seen some hunters need out of the large calibre rifles.

Add to that, most of the most successful deer cullers here in NZ used smaller calibres like the 222 and 223, trading up from 303's etc. The heli cullers now are using AR based 223s mainly if they're not using buckshot. Literally thousands of deer of all shapes and sizes have been successfully killed with a 223.

Now if I was to recommend a calibre for a starting hunter, it would not be a 223. I'd be recommending a 243, 260, 308, 7-08, 270, etc. But learn how to shoot accurately with whatever gun and calibre you choose first before going and lobbing shots at deer. A 223 is a great calibre to put a lot of rounds through, say shooting hares and rabbits, or wallabies and goats, and at the same time to practice target acquisition , shooting positions, breathing, trigger control etc.

Some people have some bizarre ways of thinking

The .223 for me has been the best and most consistant calibre I have used on deer and such. On foot I have lost one animal due to bad judgment. I have lost shit loads more with the more PC calibers.
I have shot more deer with one than any other cal I have used ground shooting.
I have used one most of my time in machines as well.
Not a cal I would advise anyone to start out with, but certainly not as unethical and insufficient with the right load as some people claim.
I will always have one in my safe for harvesting meat for the table.

Interesting, I have gone to a bigger calibre to give me a bigger margin of error if the shot is less than perfect although if you hit the wrong bit then won't help much.

Kinda like the differnce between being hit by a mini or a bus.

If either hit you dead center then its all over,

Slightly off center and still all over with the bus but maybe not so with the mini.

But if either only run your foot over all you end up with is a sore foot and a bit of a limp

Can someone point out the difference in margins of error on a deer sized target with a .22 centerfire opposed to a PC calibre please?

Not much really. A deers lungs are pretty big target wise. Perhaps penetration could be an issue from awkward angles.

Originally Posted by Beavis

penetration could be an issue from awkward angles.

This!

Knowing when to take or not take the shot is a big part of it, and that is a skill that's hard to impart