Thread: .223 can knock over a stag?

Originally Posted by res

This!

Knowing when to take or not take the shot is a big part of it, and that is a skill that's hard to impart

And also calibre irrelevant. Bad shot regardless of caliber is still a bad shot.

kinda gotta be a good shot for it to be successful tho but yea 223 is enough
learn the deer anatomy and where it will die when you shoot it and it will be fine
I nailed a 120 pound pig with my 22 with 42grain subs two months back but it was standing side on at 40m and I can thread a needle with that rifle
pig dropped on the spot
deer would do the same if you have cut enough of them up to know where their spine is and sever it with the shot
dont try for a head/brain shot and dont shoot at anything moving, and if you are not confident pass on the shot and stalk closer
and yea iv lost count of how many bricks of 22 ammo iv been thru so shoot frequently and know your rifle

If you have an AR shoot service rifle it helps hone your practical accuracy and gives you confidence in your rifle. A V bull is roughly the same size as the chest target on a deer

So is everyone just marking time on this topic, waiting for the 'sully little bugger' to come back for another crack.

Yup
Even checked his page, hasn't come back today.
Probably doing his school work before he's allowed on the computer

I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection

It's hell on the magpies

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Very interesting and acknowledgeable post.
As i have been saying for a while in few posts in here, "I can't stop learn from you guys".

Thank you for share your acknowledge.

Mac

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Putting a 120g pill in the 7mmMag is a bit like training wheels on a Superbike. Its possible but not realistic. Run the numbers again with something decent like a 162 A-Max or 180 Berger and things will change.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Putting a 120g pill in the 7mmMag is a bit like training wheels on a Superbike. Its possible but not realistic. Run the numbers again with something decent like a 162 A-Max or 180 Berger and things will change.

Sigh....... you are missing the point altogether.

As it happens, I run the 180 VLD and the 120 TTSX in my 7mm Mag, it is utterly pointless running a heavier TTSX because.......? perhaps you could tell me.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Please don't troll

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection

fuckin lollllllllll

A fragile projectile out of a larger caliber at decent speed gives a lot more margin for error on a neck shot than 223, for instance a 130gr hp or 150 sst stoked up out of any half decent 30 cal chambering will all but amputate the head of the biggest stag on a high neck shot weather the spine is hit or not.
However those same projectiles up close on a worked up stag covered in mud in the shoulder just make a big mess of the shoulder and fail to do any real damage to the engine room.
A sturdy projectile out of the same enables within reason any angle shot at the engine room, but plus 300 while it will penetrate it won't do a whole lot of damage and it may run a bit.
Heavy fragile projectiles out of the same will still drop lung shot deer on the spot +600y
Projectile selection for the job is absolutey the key.
I am not a ex culler too young for that dam it and i don't own a massive farm covered in deer either, despite that I have shot more than a few deer and witnessed at least as many shot with all sorts of calibers.
I have had a few cockups of course if you haven't then you have shot Fuck all.
Witnessed a fair few too,but the lost animals can be counted on one hand.
I have even witnessed a fallow buck taken at over 500y with a 223 and Kentucky windage before the range finder revolution and ranged ten years later.
It went about 20 yards.

A new hunter is unlikely to be reloading, is probably on a tight budget and will shoot whatever is cheap that works.
federal blue box fits the bill for most in most calibers for close to medium ranges.
All this taken into account while the 223 is a capable caliber I personalbly would never recommend it as a deer caliber to a new hunter.



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I took three fallow hinds over the weekend. Hit with 55gr zmax out of my AR. First one was hit straight in the head and went down before I heard the smack return, other two were shoulder hit and went all of 5-10 metres. Recovered those two projectiles under the skin on the off side shoulder. Its all about the placement as has been said. Know your limits and only fire if damn sure its going down.