Thread: .223 can knock over a stag?

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Probably not, was in a hurry.

Clearly, you are happy to shoot large animals with an inadequate for task tool, nothing I can or will say is going to change your m/o, just as you will never convince me to change mine, which by the way is to use a projectile that always punches deep, no matter what the angle, and loses enough off the nose to generate secondary wounding, and expands to create a decent wound channel, with more than the generally accepted minimum energy levels.

The scary thought for me, is that an inexperienced young fella reading/listening to these types of ....... debate, gets thinking he can run around with a .223 and "knock over stags", the fact that it is possible and has been done lots of times does not make it eithical. There are some states in the US and hunting areas around the world where it is illegal to use calibres that small even on smaller deer. There is a reason for that.

The comments on regulations in the US are not unique to there. To hunt on DOC land here in NZ, we are require to use a 222 or bigger(so no 17 Fireball on DOC land). The now non-existent Sambar Deer Foundation also required a 270 or bigger for Sambar.

Also, it would be interesting to know how many deer were killed with the NZ Govenment (NZFS) supplied 222 ammo during the culling days?

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Very interesting and acknowledgeable post.
As i have been saying for a while in few posts in here, "I can't stop learn from you guys".

Thank you for share your acknowledge.

Mac

Originally Posted by Pengy

Yep. He sent me a few PM`s

Yeharrrr, im 'young' again....for a fossil......

Originally Posted by Pengy

Yep. He sent me a few PM`s

And Twoshot. He has feck all hair but he's not that old

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Putting a 120g pill in the 7mmMag is a bit like training wheels on a Superbike. Its possible but not realistic. Run the numbers again with something decent like a 162 A-Max or 180 Berger and things will change.

I was gonna say if you were running a 7mm or 6.5 why would you run shit bullets?

Originally Posted by Gibo

Be interesting if the admins could do a match on the IP adress and see if he's a regular

One of the first things checked

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

One of the first things checked

So who was it

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection

fuckin lollllllllll

In case no one has told you the truth yet, the only way to kill deer is to let sunlight in to their body's.
So as you go higher up in caliber size the more sunlight you let in and thus kill the deer deader.
I would consider the sectional coverage of a .223 to be on the minimal side, a larger window of sunlight provided by a .243 would be preferred

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.

So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.

So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.

I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.

A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.

Please don't troll

Gloatingly comparing the worst possible bullets in 6.5/7mm that you'd have to be clinically retarded to use, to the best possible bullet in .25 cal fired out of possibly the silliest cartridge in existence: totally valid and useful

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Putting a 120g pill in the 7mmMag is a bit like training wheels on a Superbike. Its possible but not realistic. Run the numbers again with something decent like a 162 A-Max or 180 Berger and things will change.

Sigh....... you are missing the point altogether.

As it happens, I run the 180 VLD and the 120 TTSX in my 7mm Mag, it is utterly pointless running a heavier TTSX because.......? perhaps you could tell me.

Originally Posted by gimp

Gloatingly comparing the worst possible bullets in 6.5/7mm that you'd have to be clinically retarded to use, to the best possible bullet in .25 cal fired out of possibly the silliest cartridge in existence: totally valid and useful

Fuck man. I just ran out and sold all my guns to buy a 257 Weatherby..then you post this....aw man.