Thread: .22lr rifles when did it become ok that they were all just crap?

I totally understand what you're saying, I've been ruing the same thoughts for some time. The Unique BIZ-51 should be quite nice, but they are uncommon, and I've only ever held one example - and that was some time ago. Mainly Hunting had one and I always intended to take a look if I was passing through, but that won't happen now !!

The Weatherby XXII also should be nice, but they are even less common here. The only common one thats approaching good is the Browning Auto 22 but thats something of an acquired taste as well with its tube mag in the butt. I had sort of decided to get an older one and have it rebarreled with a heavier barrel, and see if I could find a 'Smith with enough nous to really tune the trigger.

I love my poxy, cheap plasticy marlin 980s. Why? because it shoots. Cost me $350 bucks scoped and silenced, and is damn near as accurate as my mates $1800 KIDD 10/22.

I think people treat 22's more as a tool than show piece, And I guess if you want a nice wooded rimfire the same quality as a nice wooded centrefire, expect to pay similar prices

I've never understood why shooters accept paying large sums of money to acquire quality Centerfire Rifles and Shotguns , yet get grumpy when their .22 which they paid only a few hundred dollars for doesn't meet there quality and accuracy expectations .
Buying public mindset , and what people are prepared to pay influences what hangs on the gunshop wall .
One of my .22's has cost me more than a Tikka T3 with a European scope .
If you take your Rimfires seriously , then be prepared to pay .

Ken

Happy with my E-CAT Ruger SR-22.
Accurate and reliable as long as I clean it every thousand rounds.
Mounted with a Vortex Spark 2 red dot and a vortex 3X magnifier which can be flicked to the side when not required.
The trigger is average but it makes for good practice for shooting standard out of the box AR15 triggers.

Based on your requirements, and on my 50 years of gunsmithing experience, I would suggest the following in bolt action: CZ 452, Ruger M77/22, and possibly Ruger American. In semi-auto there is only one rifle that will give a lifetime of trouble-free service (subject to normal maintenance) and that is the Ruger 10/22. I must also state that none of these rifles will give you what you want 'out of the box'. All of them will require some relatively minor tuning (well under $100) but the result will be a thoroughly reliable rifle with accuracy of at least 1/2" at 50 metres. The Sako Quad gives the appearance of quality manufacture but it is not a good design and is grossly overpriced in relation to rifles that will out perform it. The rifles I suggested will not need the attention of a gunsmith in your lifetime apart from the initial tune. They are all well designed and of quality materials, but just need a minor tweak to bring out their best. Most other rifles will eventually need repairs and/or replacement parts. Some people spend big bucks on buying after-market barrels, triggers, etc (especially with the 10/22) but the reality is that the original parts are perfectly good with some skilled attention, and are quite capable of the requirements you seek. The Ruger rotary magazine is miles ahead of any other magazine for reliability. Back in the 1920's to 1950's there was no shortage of skilled workmen in the firearms industry, but today that situation is reversed. Not only are there almost no skilled workmen in the industry, but the majority of them are, at best, process workers. That is why virtually all modern firearms require some precision handwork to bring out their best.

Originally Posted by Makros

Been looking for a new .22lr preferably a semi.
Happy to pay a bit of coin but not extreme amounts.

But when did it become ok that all of the general models on the market were just rubbish?
Ruger 10/22 - Rubbish trigger as per normal, sloppy fit and finish. Shouldn't be as expensive as they are if you want something more than plastic blue.
CZ 512 - Absolutely horrible and worse than the 10/22 foreend rattled when shook creepy heavy trigger (the 10/22 was better) an that magazine is awful. WTF CZ! Absolutely huge disappointment for a ~$800 .22lr (and i''d be happy paying more for a .22lr).
Marlin's all look, feel and function like cheap rubbish, I know their reputation for accuracy but I don't care - another pile of crap.
CZ's bolt actions don't deserve the praise they get fit and finish is average, wood is crap quality and are over priced in my opinion for what they are.
Other bolt actions are barely worth mentioning, savage may as well use sand for lubricant feels the same, ditto marlin bolts.

I am not prepared to pay the asking price for what amounts to rubbish standards and quality just because the rifles are .22lr and not a centerfire.

The worse thing is I was hopeful reading reviews online about several models and the reviewers say they are good, I say the are dropping their standards to accept rubbish because it is a rimfire and not a centerfire. I use my .22lr more than any other rifle, I expect the same performance, finish, and standard of fit that I expect out of my centerfires.

Are there options for someone that actually gives a shit about .22lr quality? Most of all I want value for my dollar which I don't see in the $1200+ .22lr bolt actions and certainly not for the absolute crap below that price point. I liked the feel of the Sako Finnfire but seriously it is not a $1800 rifle, upgrade an average action with a nice stock and better finish doesn't amount to charging twice as much as your competition.
Maybe I am picky but you should be I think.

If you want centrefire quality then pay centrefire prices. It seems clear that you value looks and finish over function.

I have a SS marlin 795 and it functions flawlessly and is more accurate than I can shoot. I couldn't care less what the finish is like when it performs the way it does, and the finish isn't terrible. It certainly isn't "rubbish" or a "pile of crap" as you call it, I've owned a few now and all functioned flawlessly so i'm guessing by your comment that you've never seriously used one.
I also have a Norinco EM332 and it functions flawlessly.

One good bolt and one good semi, I spent as much money as I needed to to get good accurate .22s, any more money spent would've been wasted. I think the my pair of .22s owes me less than $700.

If i was going to drop some serious coin on a .22 i think id go for a nea ar15 dedicated .22lr but in saying that my 70 s 10/22 still does me well

Originally Posted by grunzter

I was looking at a CZ 512 but did not like the trigger...
The Marlin 795's are only $149 in the US. i thought that was fine...
I have a CZ452 and a Savage, both bolt action and i like them, i find the quality of the CZ to be great.

Has anyone tried the new Lithgow 22LR cross over, they look cool, and are not cheap if that helps.
LA101
Attachment 32900

...whoops, not semi...

Grant

Yep i have the lithgow and very pleased with how solidly built and machined it is.
It is also showing to be an accurate and precise rifle as i have been doing a bit of bench work with my 22s and rate it.
My marlin model 60 deluxe has nice wood and shoots well to.
Just depends if ya dont mind the 14 round tube mag.
you wilk get plenty of advice on here!

Here you go problem solved

https://touch.trademe.co.nz/listing/view/832449675

Originally Posted by FRST

I'd recommend a CZ99 from Zastava if you are on a budget and a Ruger 77/22 if you are not.

I've have a CZ99 in .17hmr, which I have head shot rabbits at 100 metres from a rest. It also has a very nicely figured stock, and excellent bluing. I did cause myself an eye injury by over lightening the trigger, which wasn't very nice.

iv also had a zastava cz99 easily the best 22 ive owned that was brand new all my one needed was a trigger smooth and find what ammo it liked and that was it

Originally Posted by gundoc

Based on your requirements, and on my 50 years of gunsmithing experience, I would suggest the following in bolt action: CZ 452, Ruger M77/22, and possibly Ruger American. In semi-auto there is only one rifle that will give a lifetime of trouble-free service (subject to normal maintenance) and that is the Ruger 10/22. I must also state that none of these rifles will give you what you want 'out of the box'. All of them will require some relatively minor tuning (well under $100) but the result will be a thoroughly reliable rifle with accuracy of at least 1/2" at 50 metres. The Sako Quad gives the appearance of quality manufacture but it is not a good design and is grossly overpriced in relation to rifles that will out perform it. The rifles I suggested will not need the attention of a gunsmith in your lifetime apart from the initial tune. They are all well designed and of quality materials, but just need a minor tweak to bring out their best. Most other rifles will eventually need repairs and/or replacement parts. Some people spend big bucks on buying after-market barrels, triggers, etc (especially with the 10/22) but the reality is that the original parts are perfectly good with some skilled attention, and are quite capable of the requirements you seek. The Ruger rotary magazine is miles ahead of any other magazine for reliability. Back in the 1920's to 1950's there was no shortage of skilled workmen in the firearms industry, but today that situation is reversed. Not only are there almost no skilled workmen in the industry, but the majority of them are, at best, process workers. That is why virtually all modern firearms require some precision handwork to bring out their best.

The Ruger is in general rubbish and has been outsold by the Marlin semi action worldwide by somewhere between 1:2 and 1:3 times. The Ruger magazine is a good design but not the best when teamed up with a semi auto as it is renowned for clogging up with blow back gases. To get Rugers shooting OK will cost you a lot more than $100 with todays gunsmithing rates.

If you want a nice semi look out for a Marlin 60 DLX. @sneeze has a very nice example and they do not cost the earth.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

The Ruger is in general rubbish and has been outsold by the Marlin semi action worldwide by somewhere between 1:2 and 1:3 times. The Ruger magazine is a good design but not the best when teamed up with a semi auto as it is renowned for clogging up with blow back gases. To get Rugers shooting OK will cost you a lot more than $100 with todays gunsmithing rates.

If you want a nice semi look out for a Marlin 60 DLX. @sneeze has a very nice example and they do not cost the earth.

The two most common semi-autos that gave problems were the Marlin (misfiring, loose barrel, magazine problems) and the Sterling M20 (broken firing pins, incorrect assembly, loose/missing ejectors). All .22 semi-autos need periodic cleaning to remove powder residue, and some are worse than others in this regard (the 10/22 not being one of them). The worst thing that an owner can do with a .22 semi-auto is put oil in it. This acts as a magnet for dust and firing residue. The full tune on a Ruger 10/22 (2.5 lb crisp trigger pull, refit barrel, tune for subs, supply and fit buffer pin) should not cost any more than $60 from any competent gunsmith. It was a job I happily did for $50 and made good money as it takes about 30-40 minutes, and still under 1 hour if you include a threading job.

the stats I saw were 10/22 over 5million sold and model 60 over 11 million sold

Most people look down on the 22lr , and as such MOST are willing to pay very little for one , so thats mainly why they are cheap and not well designed or made .

I would look out for a very good 2nd hand rifle , like the Annie 54 or a Sako P94S Finnfire , at approx 1.5k , new your only option is a new Annie 54 from deadeye dicks for just over 2k , and thats good when they use to be 3k .

The Volqs are OK , again look for a 2nd hand one , and go for the Steel actioned one ie SS and not Aluminium .

Or the Weiranchs at 1.3k new .

Me , I have a soft spot for Annie 54s and P94S , of the 2 , the Sako is a little lighter , for hunting with , and barrel changes are easier , basically a allen key & a headspace guage .

Cheers Chris