Thread: .22lr rifles when did it become ok that they were all just crap?

Originally Posted by gundoc

The two most common semi-autos that gave problems were the Marlin (misfiring, loose barrel, magazine problems) and the Sterling M20 (broken firing pins, incorrect assembly, loose/missing ejectors). All .22 semi-autos need periodic cleaning to remove powder residue, and some are worse than others in this regard (the 10/22 not being one of them). The worst thing that an owner can do with a .22 semi-auto is put oil in it. This acts as a magnet for dust and firing residue. The full tune on a Ruger 10/22 (2.5 lb crisp trigger pull, refit barrel, tune for subs, supply and fit buffer pin) should not cost any more than $60 from any competent gunsmith. It was a job I happily did for $50 and made good money as it takes about 30-40 minutes, and still under 1 hour if you include a threading job.

I would like you to find one that will do that work for that money today! The Marlin, out of the box, does not generally need anything other than a weaker trigger return spring (get rid of the ridiculous anti law suit one) and and if you want a slight change to the trigger blade to improve the trigger; mine took me about 10 minutes and a floppy disc. The open design of the Marlin mags makes them very easy to clean. The shops here seem to prefer to sell people the Ruger so they can also sell them the extras they require to make them do what they should have done from the factory.

My 2c worth is if you are hell bent on a semi - then buy a cheap Ruger 10/22 and then add the aftermarket replacement part as required (the Tony Kidd stuff) to bring it up to the top standard - This is what the guys use for inter-club but its not cheap. An entire Kidd would be somewhere around 1600 - 2k I'm thinking from when I enquired 6 months ago. The best thing about this is you could just swap the receiver and trigger if you are happy with the barrel and stock it comes with... or replace as you have funds or parts are available... becomes a pretty good project gun as you can add on the mods as required.

Here's the details for Darin from the Tony Kidd site.
International Sales

Other than that your best opportunity for good 22lr is a bolt action. CZ probably pound for pound the best with a trigger job/ replacement made then Anshutz 64 action models than top of the heap a 54 action. (depending on its history etc) being a lefty the CZ was the choice for me.

You guys just don't get it! The Ruger 10/22 does NOT need any aftermarket parts to make it a 100% reliable and accurate rifle. It just needs lees than 1 hours work on the factory parts to get the job done. The 10/22 after-market parts are for people with more money than brains! I was one of the first professional shooters in NZ to use the 10/22 (1966) and I have been tuning them since then. I have fitted new factory barrels to 10/22's that have done in excess of 100,000 rounds and they are still giving good service with professional shooters. Maybe I should offer pre-tuned new wood/blue 10/22's to the NZ market (with 50 metre test targets) for $500 and make a killing!

YES ,

I will , BUY one .

Originally Posted by gundoc

Maybe I should offer pre-tuned new wood/blue 10/22's to the NZ market (with 50 metre test targets) for $500 and make a killing!

You know, thats actually not a bad idea!

Originally Posted by gundoc

You guys just don't get it! The Ruger 10/22 does NOT need any aftermarket parts to make it a 100% reliable and accurate rifle. It just needs lees than 1 hours work on the factory parts to get the job done. The 10/22 after-market parts are for people with more money than brains! I was one of the first professional shooters in NZ to use the 10/22 (1966) and I have been tuning them since then. I have fitted new factory barrels to 10/22's that have done in excess of 100,000 rounds and they are still giving good service with professional shooters. Maybe I should offer pre-tuned new wood/blue 10/22's to the NZ market (with 50 metre test targets) for $500 and make a killing!

People 'learning' all they know from the internet and confusing that with first hand experience is the problem here I think @gundoc ...

Originally Posted by gundoc

You guys just don't get it! The Ruger 10/22 does NOT need any aftermarket parts to make it a 100% reliable and accurate rifle. It just needs lees than 1 hours work on the factory parts to get the job done. The 10/22 after-market parts are for people with more money than brains! I was one of the first professional shooters in NZ to use the 10/22 (1966) and I have been tuning them since then. I have fitted new factory barrels to 10/22's that have done in excess of 100,000 rounds and they are still giving good service with professional shooters. Maybe I should offer pre-tuned new wood/blue 10/22's to the NZ market (with 50 metre test targets) for $500 and make a killing!

If you could do it you would make a killing.

Originally Posted by Shamus

People 'learning' all they know from the internet and confusing that with first hand experience is the problem here I think @gundoc ...

There is nothing wrong with doing a bit of homework on the internet. You can tap into the knowledge of many thousands of people world wide. That is what this site is about; more than one opinion. I researched world wide on the internet and found that people that own both Ruger and Marlin semis would generally take the Marlin for a hunt as it was more far more accurate and reliable out of the box and with 10 minutes work the trigger could me made much better. They kept the Ruger for plinking and blinging.

There is a very good reason the Marlin has out sold the Ruger world wide, it is really just in NZ that the Ruger has a bigger following. There is also a reason there are so few after market parts for the Marlin (doesn't need them) and so many for the Ruger (does).

Just to add another aspect to this discussion of accuracy , and not the original topic of rimfire quality .
A number of times I've been asked to help someone at the gun club to sort out a problem .22 .
After the initial check of the basics - mounts , crown , trigger adjustment if its an option , then multiple ammo changes , the biggest hindrance to consistent accuracy is the cheap arse scopes that gunshops sell to customers with the advice that it will be fine on a .22 , but in the same breathe advise it would be no good on a Centerfire .
Parallax is a major problem with many scopes ( not just cheap ones either ) when used at .22 distances .
It can be overcome in a limited way if your aware of it and use a absolutely consistent gun hold and sight picture .
But even that can just leave you chasing your tail .
Everyone blames the rifle , but a large component of the problems can be the cheap Hong Kong Phooey Optics and Beer Can alloy mounts .

Ken

May be I should have bolded the most important words in my posts top line ... " AS REQUIRED

The best thing is actually, you have options e.g. trigger or trigger work to get it to exactly what you want a super light trigger well you can do that, new barrel or action you can do that- but rest assured once you start it becomes a bit of a arms race and hence I added Darins details and at the end of the day comes down to peoples preferences out there.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I lost all interest @"military grade barrel" why would you advertise the fact you have shit barrels?

I know exactly what you mean man. Those that win government contracts are always the lowest of low.

EM 332 | Trade Me

EM332 on TM

As a past comp shooter and long term rimfire hobbyist I would like to challenge some comments made here. The notion that most 22s now sold - marlin, cz, savage etc are all of very low quality and are absolute crap is opinion and nothing more than that. It is certainly not fact. It is quite opposed to the views and buying behaviour of most kiwi shooters/farmers who buy 97-98% of their 22s in the $0-800 dollar category, while just 2% of buyers choose the high priced Sako Quads/Weihrauch etc. This breakdown from manager of large rifle retailer.

We all enjoy a well constructed rifle with nicely machined action, fine tolerances, fluted barrel, jewelled bolt, beautifully grained timber etc - but this construction quality is not the primary measure we use when buying 22s here in NZ. Not by a country mile. Why - because our 22s are generally bought to be day to day hunters - worker rifles. Instead of focussing on just build quality, as Savage 1 points out above we go for operational or functional quality and we look for little hunting 22s that will offer durability, reliability, very good accuracy plus ease of maintenance. If a person uses a rifle only 2-3 times per year and in most careful conditions then by all means buy an expensive well made unit, but if you shoot alot, are wandering through the matagouri or using trucks/quads/bikes etc then the high priced/classic pieces stay in the closet - and its the capable little worker 22s that get 97% of this practical use.

Have had the opportunity to thoroughly bench test somewhere between 60-100 .22 makes and models in the last 20 years - new models from manufacturers and second hand units - and there are in fact some very sound 22 performers which cost very little but which function very well and shoot superbly on the bench and in the field. We have also shot just under 20,000 bunnies from just one of our stations alone in the last 7 years - in depth field testing which shows out the merits and faults of any rifle. And from this experience I have no hesitation in recommending a number of models and makes as having the right operating qualities for NZ conditions. These reliable and often inexpensive little performers include CZ and Brno models - excellent wee hunters - Marlin 925 and 980, Marlin 795 and model 60 semiautos, upgrade Savages, Winchester 9422, Norinco Em332, polished JW15s and others.

Each of these little units can be deadly effective off the bench as well as in the field in the right hands. Some have proven superbly accurate e.g. a Norinco Em332 which shot 4 consecutive groups averaging 0.6" at 100 meters; two Marlin 60 semiautomatics which touched 1/4" for groups at 50m (5 shot) and averaged 0.29 and 0.39 respectively for four group sets, JW15s which easily outshot Brnos, and Marlin 925s shooting into the 0.3s. They are well capable of matching any european sporters - and beat many off the bench. These same rifles have proven themselves thoroughly on the range and in the field. This is operational quality and its what most kiwi 22 buyers seek out.

Re semiauto 22s I've tested alot and ruger is one we no longer use - having had 6-7. They have consistently poor accuracy out of the box and I fundamentally object to buying a rifle then having to spend alot on getting it to shoot properly. The days are long gone when above mentioned ruger work would happen for $50-60. Two inexpensive semiautos that shine on the bench and in the field ( have tested maybe 12-15 of them) when doing side-by-side analysis with other makes are the two little marlins. The simple little 795 will comfortably shoot under 0.5" at 50 out of the box, and average round 0.58" for four group sets, and the 60s will drop to 1/4" at 50m - stunning accuracy. In terms of value/performance the little walnut stock 60DLX special at about $575 easily wins the semi race. We have used alot of these marlin semiautos in recent years - after they completely dismantled my own prejudice against semiauto inaccuracy - and we have almost zero reliability problems. Give them the right ammos and maintenance and they are trouble free.

I've had some beautiful 22s and tested others, but when it is time to head for the hills it is the highly competent super accurate wee workers that are picked out of the gunrack. And there are quite a number of these little units which give high quality performance in the field. That's the quality we most often look for in a 22, and it's what kiwis try to buy.

Originally Posted by Spudattack

EM 332 | Trade Me

EM332 on TM

That's taking the piss, I paid $300 for mine not long ago.

Originally Posted by Spudattack

EM 332 | Trade Me

EM332 on TM

Trade me is supposed to email me when they get listed... but damn look at the price