Thread: .22lr rifles when did it become ok that they were all just crap?

Have you worked the bolt on the norinco?

Originally Posted by gadgetman

The Ruger is in general rubbish and has been outsold by the Marlin semi action worldwide by somewhere between 1:2 and 1:3 times. The Ruger magazine is a good design but not the best when teamed up with a semi auto as it is renowned for clogging up with blow back gases. To get Rugers shooting OK will cost you a lot more than $100 with todays gunsmithing rates.
If you want a nice semi look out for a Marlin 60 DLX. @sneeze has a very nice example and they do not cost the earth.

Yeah. Michael Jackson sold more records than Smashing Pumpkins too.
Doesn't make him better though.

Why is life so tough, and decisions so fraught . . . .

Was in the local emporium today and good old Greghud just had to take something off the rack to handle . . . the only semi autos they have in stock besides some funny "black ones" are Ruger 10/22's

The "new" ordinary 10/22's have a new stock, its a beech copy of the old deluxe one, and its much better than the old style stock, which seems to me was sized for kids. I rather liked it and think I've talked myself into buying it, when all said and done a semi -auto .22 has to function first and for-most, and the 10/22's at least do that, and with the flush mag are nice to carry. At something just over 500 notes, its quite a jump to the nice stuff at $1500 or so . . . .

Originally Posted by Shearer

Yeah. Michael Jackson sold more records than Smashing Pumpkins too.
Doesn't make him better though.

Yes it does: Billy Corgan is nearly as big a twat as Bono!

Another 22 that tested out quite well on range - forgot to mention it in post above - is the Toz 78 bolt action. This is typical Toz - tough, durable wee unit and at $495 or so with four mags its a pretty good deal. Accuracy quite good at 0.7" at 50m. I thought it would be an excellent little 22 hunter for NZ conditions. The Toz 99 semi disappointed with accuracy but perhaps another example would shoot better - would have to.

In one particular four semiauto 22 side-by-side comparison for a magazine article a few years ago, I had a bit of fun with a Toz 99, ruger 10/22, Marlin 795 and Marlin 60. Ran them all through a heap of ammos, then driilled into the ones with which they shot best. The little marlins ran rings round the others on the range - in fact it was a treat coming back to them to shoot groups. All of the semis had ammo preferences and dislikes, but to my surprise over several hundred rounds the marlins also cycled best. Result was Marlin 60 1st, Marlin 795 2nd, then big gap back to Ruger 3rd and Toz 4th. This particular 10/22 was the most accurate stock rifle one I've used and had a 0.75" best and four group average of 1.04". Its only the averages that tell a true rifle's story.

Would like to play with the little Beretta semi - was tempted a while back. As an older Euro parts would be an issue if its under heavy use and wear and tear, but fun to play with.

I would like to add a few comments. Knowing both Gundoc and Mudgripz, I have perhaps a better understanding of where they are coming from. I have a lot of respect for Gundocs experience and knowledge. And I know the extent to which Mudgripz tests the rifles and he knows his stuff.

We sell the Toz 78s and the Toz 99s. And they come with spare magazines. If accuracy is more important, I would still say the bolt is the best way to go. The 78 will out shoot the 99 (semi auto) pretty much every time. But reliability of both will stand up against any other rifle. PM me or check trade me. I may still have a Sobol (Sporting version of the biathlon mentioned earlier.) But hey aint cheap and the Toz will usually be what I suggest.

With the Ruger 10/22 debate, I have had a few. I cannot comment on good ones versus bad ones but I know from my own experience, age matters. Older ones (pre 90s) seem to be of a better quality control than some of the ones in the 90s. And I had a bad experience with one of those and stayed away from them for the last 15 years. I own one now, though and am happy with it. Same for the Norinco. Some of the older ones circa 80s and 90s are much better made than SOME of the later ones. Hint: avoid any norinco that is branded polytech. I am yet to see a good one.....and consistent quality with that particular version seems to be an issue.

The EM332 is a very underrated rifle. If you get the chance grab one.

My late 80's to early 90's series marlin model 60 is the best .22 I have ever owned I have had norinco both Jw15 and em332, toz 03-17, remington 597 and did not like any of them mainly due to poor shoulder fit but that marlin model60 you would have to pry it out of my cold dead hands before I ever give it up.

Originally Posted by timattalon

The EM332 is a very underrated rifle. If you get the chance grab one.

Would if I could, be nice if another shipment of them came in

Interesting look... if you are into that type of thing...

22LR JW-25A Mauser 98 Style

Post a pic Hamish - let's have a look at it. You'd probably want a norinco or Toz or something to do the hard yakka when things get marked up, but Beretta/Unique etc a treat to take out now and then.

I have not really dug into the earlier americans and there were for the price some quite well made 22s there. Pre mass production days. Some gems that have real character like early Remingtons, Winchesters and also Aussie Sportco and Lithgow. I learned on I think a Lithgow model 12 - a simple, very accurate little 5 shot. Have my eye open for one but unsure now of bolt movement and scope setup. Some interesting rifles - which alot of guys may have tucked away in closet:

* Remington 510 targetmaster single, 511 scoremaster 5 shot mag, 512 sportmaster 15 shot tube. Will grab a 512 to do up sometime. Likely side mount for scoping. Often nice timber - 26 barrels. Real character/

* Winchester 52, 69, 9422 (lovely wee levers)

* Remington 541T (mmmm..), Remington 581

* Earlier Mossberg 22s

* Marlin 981T, 990, 49DL, 39A lever etc - nicely presented wee units and v accurate

There will be others too - simple, accurate but better made than some current entry level rifles. Some of these rifles offer a genuine alternative to some of the new bolt action 22s and they pop up on trademe for bugger all. If in great nick you wouldn't want to mark them up - and parts again an issue - but as with the euros you definitely buy character.

Gundoc - do you happen to know scoping on the Lithgow 12 - side mount, dovetails or rail? The early Remingtons will I assume be side mount due to bolt movement - but quite a few of these 22s are already tapped for side aperture sights which would be a treat to use if you could find them.

Quite a few interest me - a Lithgow 12, Remington 512, Marlin 981T. Be good to hear comment/experience on any of these earlier americans - some dam good rifles there for the dollar. Here's a handsome little Marlin 981T of recent years:

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ma...ml%3B800%3B300

Another group of 22s that are often forgotten but are very efficient for hunting are the wee lever actions.

We are lucky here as there are a number of surprisingly good shooters amongst the levers - the Marlin model 39 (Annie Oakley rifle), Winchester 9422 (beautiful wee 22. God uses one), Browning BL22 and Miroku ML22 (same rifle - fine little unit), Ruger 10/22 model 96 (super little hunter - no weaknesses and more accurate than the semiauto). Good wee rifles - all of them.

The Norinco JW21 lever is heavyish with fairly agricultural action but may well have typical norinco accuracy and could be good after a component polish. The Henry H001 (design bought from Erma Werke in Germany and also sold under other names like Iver Johnson/Ithaca etc) looks great and has smooth action but was a real crapper. Heat distortion in thin barrel meant groups opened out after 4-5 shots to 2-4" at 50m. Went back to shop. Winchesters other than the lovely little 9422 were pretty poor - the 150/250 etc - nowhere near the build of the 9422.

The good levers are great wee hunters when you want a quick action plus safety e.g. when training kids. One of my lads had a 10/22 semi and the other a Ruger model 96 lever and in accuracy speed tests on the range (10 shots into target at 50m measuring speed and accuracy) the little lever wasn't much behind the semiauto timewise, and lever easily outshot the semi on the bench.

We also had a range of pump/slide actions in years past and many reading this will have grown up with them - old Browning trombones, winchester, Remingtons like the 121 and 572, the sportco pump (1970s) and the recent Henry 22 pump. Most will be classics now and after the Henry lever performed so badly I'd be doubtful about the Henry pump.

Hmm - well I'll be able to give an opinion soon, a Stainless/laminated version of the Marlin model 60 (as new with a 4x scope) came up on TM and now its coming my way. If it doesn't meet up to the expectations Mudgripz has given us, then you'll see it back here (in BSS) first!! (just teasing Mudgripz - no pressure !!) I also have a dark secret that I'll only share after I've shot it.

They like to run very clean, almost dry - just one drop of oil max on bolt surfaces, and have distinct ammo preferences like most semiautos. They usually like CCI subs, standard velocity solids for paper, and for HV they like CCI minimags and sometimes aussie Win powerpoints. Good rounds to start with - rifles will vary as usual.

Here's a rimfirecentral sticky with some marlin do's and don'ts on maintenance. Basic Setup/Maintenance Guidelines for Marlin Semiautos - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Originally Posted by Tentman

Hmm - well I'll be able to give an opinion soon, a Stainless/laminated version of the Marlin model 60 (as new with a 4x scope) came up on TM and now its coming my way. If it doesn't meet up to the expectations Mudgripz has given us, then you'll see it back here (in BSS) first!! (just teasing Mudgripz - no pressure !!) I also have a dark secret that I'll only share after I've shot it.

I saw that, very pretty rifle. Made me decide to get one of those stocks from boyds

Originally Posted by mudgripz

They like to run very clean, almost dry - just one drop of oil max on bolt surfaces, and have distinct ammo preferences like most semiautos. They usually like CCI subs, standard velocity solids for paper, and for HV they like CCI minimags and sometimes aussie Win powerpoints. Good rounds to start with - rifles will vary as usual.

Here's a rimfirecentral sticky with some marlin do's and don'ts on maintenance. Basic Setup/Maintenance Guidelines for Marlin Semiautos - RimfireCentral.com Forums

My model 60 hates cci minimags and remington subs but loves HV mexican fiocchi and winchester 42 max HV havent tried any other subs as I do honestly prefer to use high velocity for rabbits and possums