Thread: 300 Blackout

300blk is just Americanised 7.62x39, just much more expensive and with the AR platform in mind. Bit of a fanboy round IMO.

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Originally Posted by Feral

300blk is just Americanised 7.62x39, just much more expensive and with the AR platform in mind. Bit of a fanboy round IMO.

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Sorry Feral have to disagree have both and would say they are quite different in many ways. AR15s will actually shoot both quite well but 7.62 is not good with sub rounds in my experience. The rifling twist is too slow and most piston semi autos such as the AK and SKS will not cycle with subs anyway. But yes 300 is stupid expensive if you don't reload but then so are many less common rounds.

so if you building from scratch or rebarreling you could just as easy have a faster twist 7.62x39mm ,you could easy as use a .308 cal barrel too.
I mean isn't that the same as the AR crowd are doing with the .223????? poking fast twist barrel and running heavy pills which really makes it almost a different cartridge...funny thing is they are really just getting a .22 high power savage type result LMFAO.

Yes you could use a fast twist 7.62x39 barrel if you can find one. Then if you want it to cycle subs in an AR it needs a short gas system however it still won't work in a piston gun (as far as I know). Also remember 7.62 barrels are .311 cal not .308 also so you really want .311/.312 cal subs (303 projectiles). If you can sort this system 7.62x39 should do it all.

Whats .22 high power savage

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Yes you could use a fast twist 7.62x39 barrel if you can find one. Then if you want it to cycle subs in an AR it needs a short gas system however it still won't work in a piston gun (as far as I know). Also remember 7.62 barrels are .311 cal not .308 also so you really want .311/.312 cal subs (303 projectiles). If you can sort this system 7.62x39 should do it all.

Whats .22 high power savage

I got a couple of reduced gas bushes made up for my Ruger 30. Equally, you can upsize the bush to have it cycle reduced loads. Older Minis were .308 but newer ones with the marginally thicker barrel (of which there are two types) are .310 so yeah you want the 303 pills.

But anyway, here we go, down the rabbit hole of suppressed blk vs x39. I have a tub of Trailboss and cast pills which I just haven't been bothered to experiment with yet. 'Silent' semis sound like a cool idea but for me, I'm after meat. The x39 has done plenty of that out to 100m.

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Originally Posted by Feral

I got a couple of reduced gas bushes made up for my Ruger 30. Equally, you can upsize the bush to have it cycle reduced loads. Older Minis were .308 but newer ones with the marginally thicker barrel (of which there are two types) are .310 so yeah you want the 303 pills.

But anyway, here we go, down the rabbit hole of suppressed blk vs x39. I have a tub of Trailboss and cast pills which I just haven't been bothered to experiment with yet. 'Silent' semis sound like a cool idea but for me, I'm after meat. The x39 has done plenty of that out to 100m.

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You must let us know how you go. It must be possible to make a piston gun cycle with subs but you would certainly need an adjustable gas system to then shoot supers.

I use the subs mostly on goats in two farms where they are a little sensitive to noise. Also the goats really have no idea what is going on and their mates in the next valley have even less idea.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

You must let us know how you go. It must be possible to make a piston gun cycle with subs but you would certainly need an adjustable gas system to then shoot supers.

I use the subs mostly on goats in two farms where they are a little sensitive to noise. Also the goats really have no idea what is going on and their mates in the next valley have even less idea.

Will do. Maybe later this year when I get some time back "just to see". You're right with the adjustable block requirements, hence I took the shortcut with a set of bushes of varying port size when I suppressed it. Means I have to remove the block if I want to change loads, so the practicalities and stuffaround factor are a turnoff. It is entirely possible tho.

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Originally Posted by Feral

...........hence I took the shortcut with a set of bushes of varying port size when I suppressed it. Means I have to remove the block if I want to change loads, so the practicalities and stuffaround factor are a turnoff. It is entirely possible tho.

That's why you need two guns - one for sub's and one for super's. Talk to the wife, I'm sure she'll understand ......
Or do what I do - buy the new gun, take it home in the dark, and get it in the safe while she is sleeping .....

.300 BLK vs 7.62x39mm? Ooh boy. From what I've read; the .300 has something like 17% greater velocity in supersonic at 200 or 300m compared to the 7.62x39, with factory loads. 7.62x39 is going to mean far cheaper ammo, for supersonic, and very cheap ammo if you consider mil-surp for plinking/practice. However if you already shoot .223 the .300 is a good option because you can make it from .223 brass. Performance is going to be the same subsonic wise, given the same projectile, but most of the loads people are using, especially those needed for semi's to cycle, then you are talking .30 cal 200+ grains, which aren't cheap. I've actually had some luck with 150 grain .311 Sierra projectiles over Trail Boss in a single-shot Baikal, but if you go .300 then there are Bergara single shots, which are quite nice, and as mentioned the Ruger American. And of course either way there are AR uppers but I'd go .300 if you it's going to be an AR as you can use the regular mags (and bolt also I'm guessing). If this is mainly for subsonic use then I'd actually consider looking at a pistol calibre, the subsonic .300 BLK with a 230 grain projectile at about 1000 fps is basically a .45 ACP, and I'm thinking the .45 has a head start on expansion, with the right projectile. .45's aren't common but you could load .44 Mag subsonic fairly easily for either lever action or single shot which are both plentiful. Just a thought, if we're talking 100m or less.

Yep a 300 and a 7.62x39 oh yes and a .308 for the longer shots and a 300WM for the really long shots... Problems solved!

.22 Savage Hi Power




History

Long before Roy Weatherby developed his high velocity ethos, the Savage Company released their .22 Savage Hi Power. The Hi Power was not only designed for use on varmints but also, Savage hoped the cartridge would be ideal for larger medium game. Designed by Charles Newton and released in 1912 for the Model 99 rifle, the .22 Hi power fired a 70 grain .228 caliber bullet at a then fast, 2790fps. The .22 Hi Power was given the same mystical kudos as Remington's .222 that came 38 years later. Not only was it used on North American game but also Asiatic and African game. In fact, Karamojo Bell wrote of using it for shooting Buffalo, his point of aim being just behind the ear.

Eventually, evidence built up pointing to the fact that the .22 Hi Power was wounding far more game than it was killing. In the USA and UK, the Hi Power remained popular for some time for use on varmints and occasionally smaller medium game species but was finally surpassed and made semi obsolete by the .222 Remington. The Hi Power has however retained limited popularity in Europe for use in combination, break open rifles where it is considered adequate for hunting Roe Deer over farmland.

Performance

As can be expected, the .22 Hi Power is much better suited to small game than it is to medium game. Nevertheless, the 70 grain bullet weight is well suited to smaller medium game weighing less than 50kg (110lb). On larger medium game, the 70 grain bullet weight is adequate for neck shots. The various range of 70 grain bullets are capable of penetrating chest cavities of larger medium game however death is usually delayed due to slow bleeding and can result in lost animals.

Factory Ammunition.

Factory ammunition for the .22 Hi Power is no longer produced in the U.S however, ammunition is still available from European manufacturers. European metric designation for the Hi power is 5.6 x 52R. Sellier & Bellot produce two loads, a 70 grain FMJ and 70 grain soft point, both at velocities of around 2750fps. Norma also offer both a 71 grain Soft Point and FMJ at 2788fps. The soft point loads from both Norma and S&B tend to be rather stout, suitable for smaller medium game, but cannot be expected to produce deep penetration.

Hand Loading

Brass for the .22 Hi Power can be sourced from Norma importers world wide. Along with this, brass can also be formed from .30-30 Winchester brass. The correct bullet diameter for the Hi Power is .227” which is unique to this cartridge. Normal .224” caliber projectiles can be used but accuracy is usually poor.

Recently, a small resurgence of interest in the .22 Hi Power in the USA has lead Hornady to offer a .227 “ caliber 70 grain soft point bullet for reloaders. This projectile is advertised for use on varmints only, though as suggested, is at least adequate on smaller medium game weighing less than 50kg (110lb).

Suitable powders for the .22 Hi Power include those of the Varget, ADI2208/4064 burning rate range. Older Savage rifles can indeed be loaded to velocities of above 2900fps with a noticeable increase in terminal performance. As with any older firearm, reloaders should take care to observe for any signs of high pressure while developing such high velocity loads.

Closing Comments

The .22 Hi Power is certainly capable of delivering similar energies to the .223 and .22-250 but lacks the choice of premium projectiles available for the .224’s for use on medium game. This cartridge is presented here purely as an insight towards the historical development of medium game cartridges. For the practical application of this cartridge on medium game, the reader is referred to killing techniques described in the .222 text.

Suggested loads: .22 Hi Power Barrel length: 24”
No ID Sectional Density Ballistic Coefficient Observed MV Fps ME
Ft-lb’s
1 FL Norma 71gr soft point .195 .26 2780 1220
2 FL S&B 70gr soft point .195 .26 2750 1190
3 HL Hornady .227” 70gr SP .195 .29 3000 1420


Suggested sight settings and bullet paths
1 Yards 100 200 250 300
Bt. path +2.6 0 -4 -10
2 Yards 100 200 250 300
Bt. path +2.6 0 -4 -10
3 Yards 100 200 250 300
Bt. path +2.2 0 -4 -8.3


No At yards 10mphXwind Velocity Ft-lb’s
1 250 9 1993 630
2 250 9 1968 610
3 250 9 2175 745


Loads limited to smaller deer species with carefully placed shots. 70gr Hornady designed for small game, for maximum success avoid heavy bone. Trajectories given for open sights .5” above bore.

22 savage hipower final.jpg


Imperial Metric
A .506 12.85
B .423 10.74
C 14deg
D .362 9.20
E .254 6.45
F 1.398 35.52
G .434 11.03
H 2.050 52.0
Max Case 2.050 52.0
Trim length 2.040 51.8

300calman....... wash thy mouth out......a .22 high power savage was the original 22centrefire with speed.
basically a .30/30 case with faster taper they came out in the super sexy savage leveraction that had the rotary magazine so you could have splitzer type projectiles
they were/a .225???? sized pill
and back to 7.62x39mm getting a fast twist barrel is no harder than a fast twist .308 or ACC you simple poke 7.62x39 reemer in a .308 blank barrel any gunsmith worth his weight in doggy doohs can figure out the subtle bits.
reloading wont be an issue as Lee dies come with 2 expanders one of which is for .308 pills which is all I use anyway.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

300calman....... wash thy mouth out......a .22 high power savage was the original 22centrefire with speed.
basically a .30/30 case with faster taper they came out in the super sexy savage leveraction that had the rotary magazine so you could have splitzer type projectiles
they were/a .225???? sized pill
and back to 7.62x39mm getting a fast twist barrel is no harder than a fast twist .308 or ACC you simple poke 7.62x39 reemer in a .308 blank barrel any gunsmith worth his weight in doggy doohs can figure out the subtle bits.
reloading wont be an issue as Lee dies come with 2 expanders one of which is for .308 pills which is all I use anyway.

Yes you would want to avoid chicom/russian 7.62x39 in a .308 barrel the pressure could be nasty! I suppose you could re-barrel a Zastava or something and use a 20" barrel, 7.62 WAS designed for the SKS with a 20" barrel and gets about 200fps more over an AK and 300fps over 300 AAC with a 16" barrel (my experience). Lots of faffing round for me and it would be right handed

The zastava have been made left handed but not sure if it was in 7.62x39 as well.

LH model only in .223

...but would've been neat in 7.62x39