Thread: Is the A2 muzzle device a flash hider or muzzle brake?

The Act states "flash suppressor" under section 2, rather than "flash hider", though those terms are generally used interchangeably. Would be interesting to see what legal opinion (if any) is with regards to this. The term "flash suppressor" isn't defined anywhere in the Act.

Originally Posted by dogmatix

I wouldn't put an A2 on an Acat. Not worth the hassle.
I have them on my MSSAs and simple thread protector on my Acat AR.

Exactly what I have done. Just not worth the hassle, simply interested in general consensus and the legal interpretation of this.

The US Army TM 9-1005-319-10 OPERATOR'S MANUAL FOR RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A2 W/E - RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A3 - RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A4 - CARBINE, 5.56 MM, M4 W/E - CARBINE, 5.56 MM, M4A1 refers to the muzzle device as a 'Compensator - helps prevent the muzzle rise while firing' ....

No mention of any flash hiding or flash suppressing, but looks like a flash hider, so I'm not sure how anyone would get on standing up in front of a judge using this argument

Originally Posted by fernleaf

The US Army TM 9-1005-319-10 OPERATOR'S MANUAL FOR RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A2 W/E - RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A3 - RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A4 - CARBINE, 5.56 MM, M4 W/E - CARBINE, 5.56 MM, M4A1 refers to the muzzle device as a 'Compensator - helps prevent the muzzle rise while firing' ....

No mention of any flash hiding or flash suppressing, but looks like a flash hider, so I'm not sure how anyone would get on standing up in front of a judge using this argument

Great argument, straight to the source.
A muzzle brake or recoil compensator is a device connected to the muzzle of a firearm or cannon that redirects propellant gases to counter recoil and unwanted rising of the barrel during rapid fire.
Makes sense - lack thereof of ports in the 6 o'clock position would mitigate some muzzle rise/climb, and as argued previously, if the A2 had ports at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position, it would not serve its purpose to reduce any/much recoil.
Compensators/muzzle brakes range in their level of recoil mitigation, with some providing some flash mitigating qualities.
The visual aspect of a "flash suppressor" is irrelevant IMO as A2 muzzle brakes and similar compensators look similar or almost identical in appearance. I'd say it's pretty difficult to that A2's are an E cat feature concretely, with no definition of a "flash suppressor" under the Act.
Burden would lie on the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the A2 was a flash hider exclusively, and does not provide any recoil compensation.
Which in this case would be difficult to prove.

But I'm not a barrister, so what would I know.

Seems this is too controversial, be careful with this, don't expose yourself to unnecessary prosecution. Especially without clear legal precedent or a clear definition under the Act.

At the end of the day let me present this scenario: If the Police stopped you on the side of the road while transporting an A cat AR15 with an A2, or if you came into contact with them in person, for whatever reason, would the officer be more likely to assume the muzzle device was a flash hider or compensator?
Considering Police are issued M4s with A2 'flash hiders' or 'compensators', however you might refer to them, I don't think this scenario would play out well. Irregardless of legality, I think it's more likely prosecution would occur rather than accepting the argument on the spot that it's technically a compensator.
Not providing advice just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by Apocalypticaman

At the end of the day let me present this scenario: If the Police stopped you on the side of the road while transporting an A cat AR15 with an A2, or if you came into contact with them in person, for whatever reason, would the officer be more likely to assume the muzzle device was a flash hider or compensator?
Considering Police are issued M4s with A2 'flash hiders' or 'compensators', however you might refer to them, I don't think this scenario would play out well. Irregardless of legality, I think it's more likely prosecution would occur rather than accepting the argument on the spot that it's technically a compensator.
Not providing advice just my thoughts.

Why would you be fucking stupid enought to put yourself in this situation?

You don't need flash suppressor / hider / compensator / muzzle brake on a .223. Unless you are using one on full auto which is unlikely in NZ. Even more so on an a-cat gun.

I can understand a sound suppressor for some areas and situations, but if you're worried about muzzle rise from an a-cat AR-15, you need to spend more time at the gym and less time attaching shit to the end of your rifle.

Then you won't have to lie awake at night worrying about what the cops think of A2 flash hiders.

Calm down man, no need to get mad. I won't, never have. It was a hypothetical, for the purpose of debate.

If you read my initial post, you'd recognise that I made this enquiry as I've been seeing "A2 muzzle brakes" being sold on TM, so is it so unreasonable to question whether or not they are a legal device to have on an A-category firearm?

Are you a fudd or something? You could make that same argument for any firearm or accessory, but guess what, we live in a society where we have the privilege and freedom to do what we like within legal parameters. Simply because you don't see any 'need' for a particular item, doesn't make it unreasonable for someone else to use that item (e.g. muzzle brake), nor does it give you justification to make that decision for someone else.

There are plenty of uses for compensators, for competitive shooting, target shooting, 3-gun, and 'because I can'.

For example, I don't NEED a bolt action hunting rifle, nor do I use one (I don't hunt, I target shoot), but I'm not going to tell you that you don't need one.

Not interested in your personal feelings surrounding muzzle devices, this thread was addressing whether or not A2's are a FH or compensator, thanks very much.

P.S. You can't fire fully automatic firearms under private ownership on a C endorsement.

Originally Posted by systolic

Why would you be fucking stupid enought to put yourself in this situation?

You don't need flash suppressor / hider / compensator / muzzle brake on a .223. Unless you are using one on full auto which is unlikely in NZ. Even more so on an a-cat gun.

I can understand a sound suppressor for some areas and situations, but if you're worried about muzzle rise from an a-cat AR-15, you need to spend more time at the gym and less time attaching shit to the end of your rifle.

Then you won't have to lie awake at night worrying about what the cops think of A2 flash hiders.

or if you have a totally fucked shoulder caused by shonky ACC repairs and the muzzle brake reduces the recoil !!!

Originally Posted by systolic

Why would you be fucking stupid enought to put yourself in this situation?

You don't need flash suppressor / hider / compensator / muzzle brake on a .223. Unless you are using one on full auto which is unlikely in NZ. Even more so on an a-cat gun.

I can understand a sound suppressor for some areas and situations, but if you're worried about muzzle rise from an a-cat AR-15, you need to spend more time at the gym and less time attaching shit to the end of your rifle.

Then you won't have to lie awake at night worrying about what the cops think of A2 flash hiders.

no need to be rude

Originally Posted by systolic

Why would you be fucking stupid enought to put yourself in this situation?

You don't need flash suppressor / hider / compensator / muzzle brake on a .223. Unless you are using one on full auto which is unlikely in NZ. Even more so on an a-cat gun.

I can understand a sound suppressor for some areas and situations, but if you're worried about muzzle rise from an a-cat AR-15, you need to spend more time at the gym and less time attaching shit to the end of your rifle.

Then you won't have to lie awake at night worrying about what the cops think of A2 flash hiders.

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Continuing this discussion, I found this interesting that GC are selling these as muzzle brakes.
https://www.guncity.com/ar15-muzzle-...-1-2x28-320025

Ultimately these devices, by whatever name, are completely inconsequential to the firearm's lethality. Much like a pistol grip.

A quick Google image search for an AR15 flash hider & then muzzle brake is pretty conclusive, just not worth the hassle.....

Originally Posted by Apocalypticaman

Continuing this discussion, I found this interesting that GC are selling these as muzzle brakes.
https://www.guncity.com/ar15-muzzle-...-1-2x28-320025

AHHH the price! Having slots facing sideways and upward is't really conducive to saving your night vision but I guess it will reduce muzzle flip. Not really a flash hider then is it?

If I remember rightly the Steyr AUG had a flash hider designed to vent gas away to the sides avoiding lighting up the sights. They seemed to work OK but then 21 inch barrels produce a bit less than 14.5 inch barrels.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Ultimately these devices, by whatever name, are completely inconsequential to the firearm's lethality. Much like a pistol grip.

so true