Thread: Air rifle

Would like some CONSTRUCTIVE opinions on Air rifles please.
I am looking at buying an Air rifle and not sure whether to go .177 or .22 and what would be the better brand.
Now I realise that some of it comes down to personal preference etc, I get that.

Any knowledge etc that people can share so I make an informed choice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

i have a practically unused ruger for sale. its the earlier metal "airhawk" not the inferior plastic one. includes a proper airgun scope $300
knocks over magpies really well.
its .177 but high velocity.
i lent it to dannyb and he says its a killer too

if you have the money and licence id go pcp just as good as 22rf at shorter ranges imho @Mintie seems to be quite knowedgable on the subject

Hi Pete

Need to know a bit more about what you want the airgun to do before I can help so a couple of questions for you.

What do you want to shoot it at? paper? animals? tin cans?

What ranges do you want to be able to shoot at?

What environment are you shooting in? back yard, orchards, farm land etc? - Is noise level important?

Sounds personal but what is your build? Airguns can vary from child size/weight right up to popeye arms required.

Whats your budget?

Whats your appearance preference? wood/blued? tactical? synthetic, long, short, pistol? - Yes you can legally hunt game with an air pistol if you get something grunty enough.

Cheers

fps and caliber is secondary to accuracy. you are shooting a very light weight projectile in either 177 or 22 into a target or animal with a low kill zone. you are better off with a 700fps rifle that will shoot an inch at 15 meters than a rifle that shoots 3" but hits 1200 fps

22 for fur, 177 for feathers. It's a lot easier to shoot with 177.

You simply need a dive tank and some very compact filling gear hanging off it to deal with PCP. It's dead easy and refilling takes under a minute total.

As for rimfires being "more stable", I have no idea what that's all about. My .22 PCP shoots consistent 6mm groups at 35yds and flattens maggies/ bunnies/.. at over 60yds.

Originally Posted by 6x47

As for rimfires being "more stable", I have no idea what that's all about. My .22 PCP shoots consistent 6mm groups at 35yds and flattens maggies/ bunnies/.. at over 60yds.

Think this comment was more saying that the bullet shape and weight of a rimfire projectile is more stable (esp at super sonic speeds) than the diabolo shape of an airgun pellet at longer ranges. The bigger issue with rimfires however is that the consistency from one bullet to another just isn't as good as it can be with good PCP's - Talking about projectile weight, powder weight, COAL, seating depth and projectile being seated concentrically - Most of these are avoided with PCP.

Really You need to know your budget, and need to work out what you are shooting. But here are my views on this subject.

1. If you just want plinker and do not care for quality and accuracy, then all brands under 300 bucks are about the same since they are all quite well established anyway. For plinkering I dont think the improvement going from $300 to $600 is meaningful.

2. If you want some quality and accuracy, and good knock down power on rabbits and possums, you will be spending about 600-900 on a new rifle. Diana 350 N-tech is a fine example of this price range - it has a lot of power, a high end trigger, and reported very accurate for a hunting air gun. I am a believer that if you do not have a good trigger you cannot have pleasant, let along accurate, gun. It is only at this price range you start to have some good triggers, like the Diana T06 trigger.

3. if you want decent quality and decent accuracy (and let us not worry about energy and reach for the moment), air rifles are considerably more expensive than 22LR. You have only 3 choices for high end non-pcp air rifles: Air Amrs TX200 (3 variants), Weihrauch HW97K, and Dianan 54/56. They cost from 1150 to 1500 depending on features and stock. You will get build quality similar to a 800 dollar 22LR bolt action rifle (say, CZ 455 American for example), but less accuracy (without tuning work), less energy, less velocity, not too different noise level (if you go with a 22 cal 900 fps air gun), more weight, more recoil, more picky with scopes and rings. And non-pcp air rifles are very hold sensitive, meaning they are harder to shoot well than firearms. The only thing you may save is ammo cost if you went with 177. But good 22 cal air rifle ammo are close to the price of 22LR ammo.

4. only high end Air rifles are worth tuning. Tuning air guns can cost a lot of money because a lot of work is involved: re-crown, change spring, polish internals, change grease, etc. After a professional tuning you may get a air rifle that is on par with a 800 dollar 22LR rifle (out of box) in terms of accuracy within 40 meters. But the rimfire will always win further out because the inherent better BC of of the projectiles.

5. High end PCP are comparable to 22LR in accuracy and reach. Some people can make their 25 cal PCP shoot as good as 22LR rifle. But they cost way more. 2000 will get you an average one. 3000 will get you an above average one. As much as I admire good pcp rifles I feel they only have limited appeal - unless you routinely shoot upward, say for example shooting birds on roofs and trees. otherwise I do not see any application where 22LR RF will not do.

Originally Posted by Mintie

Hi Pete

Need to know a bit more about what you want the airgun to do before I can help so a couple of questions for you.

What do you want to shoot it at? paper? animals? tin cans?

What ranges do you want to be able to shoot at?

What environment are you shooting in? back yard, orchards, farm land etc? - Is noise level important?

Sounds personal but what is your build? Airguns can vary from child size/weight right up to popeye arms required.

Whats your budget?

Whats your appearance preference? wood/blued? tactical? synthetic, long, short, pistol? - Yes you can legally hunt game with an air pistol if you get something grunty enough.

Cheers

All good and important questions.

I would ( irresponsibly) guess that Pete is interested in an air rifle because he wants something to shoot with in his yard, cost less to shoot. but he also want the air rifle to be good enough so shooting it can be used as training for firearm shooting. That is where air rifles starts to get expensive.

Originally Posted by mimms2

Couple of points I'll argue (while I watch plaster dry)

I have the oldest chinesest .177 slug gun, it's a piece of shit with, by any standard, a shit trigger. It is, however, quite shootable. It's long and heavy and wiggly and has miles of overtravel too, The trigger is literally the sear, holding the full weight of the mainspring. But it can still group "minute of coke can" all day at 25m.

If you can't do the work yourself, maybe.
But even many of the budget hack-guns will benefit, as you say, from a basic polish, square off and shim the springs, renew seals, crown. All of which are within reach of the can-do kiwi.

Actual tuning... spring rates etc, by the time you fuck around with that you may aswell have bought a better gun in the first place.

+1

My $200 Chinese made .177 Crosman will hit side of milk bottle lid at 20m consistently. Have cleanly shot rabbits and cats with it out to 70m.

About good triggers and accuracy. I am not saying guns with bad trigger are inoperable, just to be clear. I shoot guns for pleasure. I just never get any pleasure shooting heavy and creepy triggers. This is just my personal preference. And since I dont shoot them, I never got good shooting them. Therefore, for me, bad triggers means no accuracy. That is not to say it must be so for everyone. Some people are able to shoot well with heavy and creepy triggers.

About tuning work, most people can probably perform basic clean and polish to any gun that is not too tricky to take a part, I agree. But often that is not enough and lower-end guns will need more work than high end guns. There is a recent blog post on a custom airgun shop's website, a Diana 56TH ( a $1400 NZD gun) needed re-crowning job because the factory finish was slightly off-center, thus produces flyers here and there. They did extensive turning job on top of re-crowning. In the end the gun was shooting quite well. I am guessing the tuning job would have cost close to the price of the gun (the re-crowning job alone was for about 150 USD). You can read all about it here.

Originally Posted by mimms2

I would be getting a refund on a $1400 gun that didn't.

This is how this Diana shot before the tuning, at 49 yards.



I do not think you can get a refund for this level of performance. Even under NZ's consumer friendly law the CGA. This level of accuracy is already very good for air gun standard.

This story highlights a important point about air guns. There are just so many moving parts in a high end air gun that even for $1400 and Germany made, there are still a lot of imperfections. You can imagine what 600 dollar Spanish, Turkey, and American jobs will have. A friend of mine had a relatively powerful Gamo in 22 Cal. on the outside it look quality, sturdy, and respectable. The trigger was super heavy and long and creepy, the gun had a huge twang. I'd guess that all the internals are probably rough and imprecise. We were never able to get it to shoot well.

Yes agree go .22 for the knockdown energy. Best way to start.

Originally Posted by mimms2

I did look at the article. A hand file across the muzzle would have taken about 5 minutes rather than his 45. Then a ball bearing and bit of emery.

You are one brave man, my friend. I would not attempt a DYI hard-modification on $1400 rifle.

I would probably never attempt re-crown work at all. For me, if the gun deserves to have a re-crown job, it deserves a gun smith re-crown job.