Thread: Is buying 69 firearms from GunCity in 18 months signs of an addiction ?

He was caught, firearms crime is a non existent issue here, the system worked, looking for a registry is just trying to fuck yourself

Jord, I'll have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by mikee

Jord, I'll have to agree to disagree.

I respect that as do I your opinion.

I have a fairly personal tie to this issue and perhaps it's clouding my judgement - one thing we can agree on is this guy is a cock and I'm glad he's been caught.

Regarding registration of individual firearms, here are the givens:

- there are huge numbers of unknown firearms out there
- criminals will never comply with registration
- firearms will always be available on the blackmarket
- registration will only cost/inconvenience legitimate users
- an incomplete database is utterly useless when trying to track firearms used by criminals

Nett result: FORGET registration, focus on enforcement of existing penalties

Gun city didn't do anything illegal, it's a big store with purchases split between 2 stores and probably multiple staff. It's also stupid to try restrict "MSSA parts" to endorsed shooters as 1) it's unenforceable 2) it's pointless like the whole E endorsement system and c) there are A cat equivalents and uses for pretty much all "MSSA parts" or guns


The car registration system costs what, $250 a year, per car, do you want to pay that for each firearm you own every year to pay to administer it? It'd be relatively more expensive due to economy of scale too. Would make owning a norinco uneconomical fast

Originally Posted by gimp

Gun city didn't do anything illegal, it's a big store with purchases split between 2 stores and probably multiple staff. It's also stupid to try restrict "MSSA parts" to endorsed shooters as 1) it's unenforceable 2) it's pointless like the whole E endorsement system and c) there are A cat equivalents and uses for pretty much all "MSSA parts" or guns


The car registration system costs what, $250 a year, per car, do you want to pay that for each firearm you own every year to pay to administer it? It'd be relatively more expensive due to economy of scale too. Would make owning a norinco uneconomical fast

Largely I agree with you about the shop, mostly I'm pointing out that the average gun owner is less at fault here than the shop that sold the guy $50k plus worth of guns/ammo/parts without apparently wondering what he was up to.

FWIW, as far as I can see, the current rules worked fine. They guy got arrested. Like a lot of others in this thread, I don't see the need for calling for making changes based on a single event.

Registering firearms is just another way to ensure the law abiding get fucked. Criminals will not register guns. A register will not prevent this thing happening, "Ah Sir, the register tells me you have recently bought 69 firearms", "yes officer I have". He was hardly going to say he cut them down, filed them off and sold them to the Headhunters for his next crack bag.

Scenario, all the legal guns in NZ are registered, some unstable madman steals his flatmates 8 shot M1 benelli ( in a cupboard with a shit padlock, fully within the law) and bombs up a schoolbus. PUBLIC OUTRAGE!!! Kneejerk reaction by powers to be and Semi auto 12g shotguns are possibly banned, definitely severely curtailed, definitely at a great cost to all involved.

Much better ways out there to prevent firearms falling into the hands of crims and madmen, starting with a decent lockup requirement. Combined with the obviously good work of the cops here tagging this guy I think we have a pretty good system, we ourselves can do more than a registry ever would. Should be one of the 7 rules, "Registry is a swear".

Yeah ok I see your points. I'm happy to drop it and admit it seems incompatible with human nature and plain and simple won't work. I don't want to be arrogant, ignorant or even proud enough to float the idea beyond it's means.

How do we stop ordeals like this happening then? Harsher punishment isn't the be all and end all either. Not even capital punishment stops people using and abusing. There must be something to stem the flow to these guys, especially on this scale? I've had my idea blown to smithereens, someone elses turn.

Farrk time for a whisky.

Originally Posted by jord

Yeah ok I see your points. I'm happy to drop it and admit it seems incompatible with human nature and plain and simple won't work. I don't want to be arrogant, ignorant or even proud enough to float the idea beyond it's means.

How do we stop ordeals like this happening then? Harsher punishment isn't the be all and end all either. Not even capital punishment stops people using and abusing. There must be something to stem the flow to these guys, especially on this scale? I've had my idea blown to smithereens, someone elses turn.

Farrk time for a whisky.

Well it's been stopped. The guy was caught. Police monitoring of gang activities would pick this sort of thing up pretty quickly at a guess. It's not like there's any other market for a bunch of "illegal" guns. Look harder at the criminals, rather than inconveniencing the shit out of us

Capital punishment would probably stop a few people. But if someone is set on being a fuck face they're gonna be a fuck face. Only postive for the death sentence is at least theres no more fuck face, why'd they stop the death sentence again jks

An unfortunate number of executed people being found to have not committed the crime in question?

Originally Posted by Toby

Capital punishment would probably stop a few people. But if someone is set on being a fuck face they're gonna be a fuck face. Only postive for the death sentence is at least theres no more fuck face, why'd they stop the death sentence again jks

Capital punishment is pretty much shown to a) be more expensive than life imprisonment and b) have no real deterrent effect on any crime

Originally Posted by Toby

Capital punishment would probably stop a few people. But if someone is set on being a fuck face they're gonna be a fuck face. Only postive for the death sentence is at least theres no more fuck face, why'd they stop the death sentence again jks

Toby, I might be a redneck hick from the south but I don't and would not support captial punishment. Being dead is not a punishment its just being dead. the perpetrators family end up being punished, and they may have done nothing and also there is too much room for error. Look at all the police "opps we got it wrong"s lately.

I would pay more tax if they were sentenced to the rest of their natural lives and it meant it

Originally Posted by mikee

Toby, I might be a redneck hick from the south but I don't and would not support captial punishment. Being dead is not a punishment its just being dead. the perpetrators family end up being punished, and they may have done nothing and also there is too much room for error. Look at all the police "opps we got it wrong"s lately.

I would pay more tax if they were sentenced to the rest of their natural lives and it meant it

I'm with mikee on this, but I would prefer to see prisons downgraded a little in lieu of a tax hike. Not necessarily medieval, but it doesn't need to be anywhere near as nice as it is.

Originally Posted by square1

I'm with mikee on this, but I would prefer to see prisons downgraded a little in lieu of a tax hike. Not necessarily medieval, but it doesn't need to be anywhere near as nice as it is.

I would rather see the money spent on positive results-focussed rehabilitation and prevention programs rather than emotive "punish them!!" mentality. Stop crime before it happens through reducing poverty etc maybe, cos GETTING TOUGH ON CRIME pretty much hasn't worked awesome ever