Thread: Is buying 69 firearms from GunCity in 18 months signs of an addiction ?

Yay some gang members got sold some shitty cutdown .22s. They never do anything with them and they've probably been recovered anyway

Regarding registration of individual firearms, here are the givens:

- there are huge numbers of unknown firearms out there
- criminals will never comply with registration
- firearms will always be available on the blackmarket
- registration will only cost/inconvenience legitimate users
- an incomplete database is utterly useless when trying to track firearms used by criminals

Nett result: FORGET registration, focus on enforcement of existing penalties

Originally Posted by hamsav

Gun registration does not work ....proven! If it is tried in NZ it will fail as elsewhere , it will cost fucking millions , be a major pain in the arse ,and when it all goes titts up we ( the gun owner ......if we still have them ) will pay for this. The reason gun rego was dropped in the 1st place is because the cops couldn't/ didn't want to manage it back then and it was of no advantage because crims don't register guns REMEMBER . What is the point when the very people we seek to control are the very people who WILL NOT play the game ( register their guns) . The notion of anything even close to an efficient , functional system of gun registration is farcical and stupid, and being "online" or anything to do with computers wont make a shit of difference , oh it might make things turn to shit even faster, but that's it.
Crims have had guns since about 5 mins after they were invented , they ( still ) have them now and they always will .............get used to it, all we can do is dob em in every chance we get and then leave it to the police and the courts to fuck it up from there

Shit not much I can add to that but AMEN especially the last bit

Originally Posted by jord

A register/registry doesn't mean a government department needs to be set up nor does it mean checking any and every firearm yearly, it does however offer a starting point to get a picture at what we're dealing with in NZ and a way to at least begin tracking firearms so shit like this can be identified earlier than 69 guns down the track.


Sent from my Browning

It seems to me that a single shop sold near on 70 A cat guns, along with all the bits needed to turn them into illegal MSSAs to the same guy. Why are we talking about registration, when the question we should be asking is why the shop is apparently so ready to sell MSSA parts to guys who only buy/are licensed for A can guns? Does the shop need to come in for some scrutiny here?

Also, just in case you weren't aware, the NZ police can't administer a register of less than 10k restricted weapons and MSSAs and haven't been able to run it without consistently getting it wrong year after year. There is no way in the world that they can run a firearms register, regardless of how technologically simple you think it is. According to the Thorpe report a register needs over 80% compliance to be effective. A register of rifles moving forward is daft. Guns don't have an expiry date, you'd be ignoring over 1 million guns already in circulation, and your register would be fatally flawed from the outset.

I also recall reading somewhere that the Canadian register, despite the $billion plus spent on it, did not contribute to the solving of any crime. Doesn't that worry you slightly? What will a register solve that the system we already have didn't already just solve with the guys arrest?

Gun city didn't do anything illegal, it's a big store with purchases split between 2 stores and probably multiple staff. It's also stupid to try restrict "MSSA parts" to endorsed shooters as 1) it's unenforceable 2) it's pointless like the whole E endorsement system and c) there are A cat equivalents and uses for pretty much all "MSSA parts" or guns


The car registration system costs what, $250 a year, per car, do you want to pay that for each firearm you own every year to pay to administer it? It'd be relatively more expensive due to economy of scale too. Would make owning a norinco uneconomical fast

Registering firearms is just another way to ensure the law abiding get fucked. Criminals will not register guns. A register will not prevent this thing happening, "Ah Sir, the register tells me you have recently bought 69 firearms", "yes officer I have". He was hardly going to say he cut them down, filed them off and sold them to the Headhunters for his next crack bag.

Scenario, all the legal guns in NZ are registered, some unstable madman steals his flatmates 8 shot M1 benelli ( in a cupboard with a shit padlock, fully within the law) and bombs up a schoolbus. PUBLIC OUTRAGE!!! Kneejerk reaction by powers to be and Semi auto 12g shotguns are possibly banned, definitely severely curtailed, definitely at a great cost to all involved.

Much better ways out there to prevent firearms falling into the hands of crims and madmen, starting with a decent lockup requirement. Combined with the obviously good work of the cops here tagging this guy I think we have a pretty good system, we ourselves can do more than a registry ever would. Should be one of the 7 rules, "Registry is a swear".

Originally Posted by gimp

Gun city didn't do anything illegal, it's a big store with purchases split between 2 stores and probably multiple staff. It's also stupid to try restrict "MSSA parts" to endorsed shooters as 1) it's unenforceable 2) it's pointless like the whole E endorsement system and c) there are A cat equivalents and uses for pretty much all "MSSA parts" or guns


The car registration system costs what, $250 a year, per car, do you want to pay that for each firearm you own every year to pay to administer it? It'd be relatively more expensive due to economy of scale too. Would make owning a norinco uneconomical fast

Largely I agree with you about the shop, mostly I'm pointing out that the average gun owner is less at fault here than the shop that sold the guy $50k plus worth of guns/ammo/parts without apparently wondering what he was up to.

FWIW, as far as I can see, the current rules worked fine. They guy got arrested. Like a lot of others in this thread, I don't see the need for calling for making changes based on a single event.

Originally Posted by hamsav

wasn't some kiwi gun dealing guy chucked in jail in the states for breaking their firearms laws , wouldn't want anyone like that selling guns ( or parts thereof ) in NZ

Didn't you know? It was David Tipple from Guncity.

Originally Posted by hamsav

wasn't some kiwi gun dealing guy chucked in jail in the states for breaking their firearms laws , wouldn't want anyone like that selling guns ( or parts thereof ) in NZ

Not sure whether to laugh and agree with you, or to ask if you're entirely serious.

Just to check that you did know that the guy you're talking about is David Tipple, the owner of gun city?

Yeah ok I see your points. I'm happy to drop it and admit it seems incompatible with human nature and plain and simple won't work. I don't want to be arrogant, ignorant or even proud enough to float the idea beyond it's means.

How do we stop ordeals like this happening then? Harsher punishment isn't the be all and end all either. Not even capital punishment stops people using and abusing. There must be something to stem the flow to these guys, especially on this scale? I've had my idea blown to smithereens, someone elses turn.

Farrk time for a whisky.

Originally Posted by hamsav

wasn't some kiwi gun dealing guy chucked in jail in the states for breaking their firearms laws , wouldn't want anyone like that selling guns ( or parts thereof ) in NZ

Capital punishment would probably stop a few people. But if someone is set on being a fuck face they're gonna be a fuck face. Only postive for the death sentence is at least theres no more fuck face, why'd they stop the death sentence again jks

An unfortunate number of executed people being found to have not committed the crime in question?

Originally Posted by jord

Yeah ok I see your points. I'm happy to drop it and admit it seems incompatible with human nature and plain and simple won't work. I don't want to be arrogant, ignorant or even proud enough to float the idea beyond it's means.

How do we stop ordeals like this happening then? Harsher punishment isn't the be all and end all either. Not even capital punishment stops people using and abusing. There must be something to stem the flow to these guys, especially on this scale? I've had my idea blown to smithereens, someone elses turn.

Farrk time for a whisky.

Well it's been stopped. The guy was caught. Police monitoring of gang activities would pick this sort of thing up pretty quickly at a guess. It's not like there's any other market for a bunch of "illegal" guns. Look harder at the criminals, rather than inconveniencing the shit out of us

Originally Posted by Toby

Capital punishment would probably stop a few people. But if someone is set on being a fuck face they're gonna be a fuck face. Only postive for the death sentence is at least theres no more fuck face, why'd they stop the death sentence again jks

Capital punishment is pretty much shown to a) be more expensive than life imprisonment and b) have no real deterrent effect on any crime