Thread: buying my first ar15, seek for some advice

Originally Posted by ebf

I don't know, maybe I am missing something obvious, but just don't get the point of ARs.

Why spend $2k minimum on something that is not significantly lighter than a modern bolt rifle ?

Then you get the thing, and almost immediately start taking bits off, accessorising with other trick bits, often it seems spending at least as much again as the bare rifle price...

Plus half the ones I see at the local NZDA range are jamming or suffering from issues.

What is the attraction ? Modularity ? Barrel swops - I mean a basic new upper is $1.5K, that's a bolt gun with medium glass for me...

Or is to the fact that it is a semi, and lighter/ better than mini14, m305 clones etc ? Or is it that you can customise it with a wide variety of aftermarket parts ?

The idea is to buy one that suits your needs, out of the box, as much as possible. People who spend big money on a carbine, then end up replacing the handguard etc aren't really putting much thought into their purchase. For a minute though think about people who buy factory bolt guns, then replace the stock, replace the barrel trigger etc... I am guilty of this. Perhaps it is because there aren't factory rifles made that suit certain peoples tastes, no doubt it is the same with AR's.

The Daniel Defense rifle I linked to above, while at the upper end of the price scale, doesn't really need anything else done to it, other than an optic, and a good trigger, if you can't live with a mil spec trigger.

The attraction for me is they just feel better. All of the other semi auto rifles I have used feel like junk in comparison. AR's point, carry and almost always shoot better than commonly available semi auto center fire rifles. Even rimfire AR's are better - I find them to be significantly nicer to shoot than say a 10/22, though they are not as reliable.

An AR with a good barrel and a free float fore end will hang with a bolt gun of comparable quality accuracy wise full stop really. The advantage to some bolt guns is the fact that they can run higher BC bullets, like the A max and Berger VLD's at mag length, where they turn an AR into a single shot (Service Rifle shooters in the USA do this sometimes for really long distance matches)

As to jamming issues, I put it down to user inexperience. Some people have a lot of misconceptions about AR's, thanks to the internet. Some think you have to run them dry, which is a quick road to frustration. Lots of A cat mags are really shit and prone to causing stoppages - this is one of the biggest pluses for having an E cat AR, much better mags. Some AR's are just of dubious build quality. People palm off parts as being from x,y,z US manufacturer, but in reality they are some no name made in Asia part. These parts have caused problems, some Korean made bolts marketed as an American name brand come to mind.

To some it up, if you shoot an AR of known quality, properly lubricated with good mags, you will be happy. You would have to hunt or compete with one for a year to understand, but in my opinion the other contemporary semis we are used to like AK's, Mini's, SKS's etc are not even in the same court. I've shot PE90's, AUG's, SL8's etc as well, all quality guns, but still prefer an AR, as a hunter and target shooter, it does what I want and does it well.

*sum (can't edit)

I should at that they are just plain fun, they bring a smile to the dial, which is what it's about.

I do basically everything with my AR, will probably sell one or two other rifles as it simply makes them redundant. Light, ergonomic and easily modified to suit each users needs exactly.

I'd wager a AR in 308 with fancy optics would render 90% of most bolt guns obsolete in many situations.

Originally Posted by AzumitH

I do basically everything with my AR, will probably sell one or two other rifles as it simply makes them redundant. Light, ergonomic and easily modified to suit each users needs exactly.

I'd wager a AR in 308 with fancy optics would render 90% of most bolt guns obsolete in many situations.

I've been down this road and have to disagree and tip my hat to the bolt guns. Big frame AR's are horrendously large and heavy and often fraught with reliability issues. Plus .308 etc is incredibly expensive to shoot these days. Last time I took my LAR 8 out shooting I lost most of the Lapua brass I had formed for it to the scrub. Hopefully the DPMS Gen II breathes new life into the concept, but the ammo is still expensive.

Was just discussing AR10's with a mate, he has one but hasn't used it much, .223 has always dropped the deer he has shot.

Originally Posted by Beavis

I've been down this road and have to disagree and tip my hat to the bolt guns. Big frame AR's are horrendously large and heavy and often fraught with reliability issues. Plus .308 etc is incredibly expensive to shoot these days. Last time I took my LAR 8 out shooting I lost most of the Lapua brass I had formed for it to the scrub. Hopefully the DPMS Gen II breathes new life into the concept, but the ammo is still expensive.

Was just discussing AR10's with a mate, he has one but hasn't used it much, .223 has always dropped the deer he has shot.

Have to agree, I have gone from owning 5 to currently 2 and possibly only one shortly. I will keep my light/short AR15 but that may be it and maybe just because it was the first one I imported myself. I have gone back to the bolt action for most things now. Lighter / and can get a calibre with a bit more oomph. funny how things go in circles

Originally Posted by Beavis

I've been down this road and have to disagree and tip my hat to the bolt guns. Big frame AR's are horrendously large and heavy and often fraught with reliability issues. Plus .308 etc is incredibly expensive to shoot these days. Last time I took my LAR 8 out shooting I lost most of the Lapua brass I had formed for it to the scrub. Hopefully the DPMS Gen II breathes new life into the concept, but the ammo is still expensive.

Was just discussing AR10's with a mate, he has one but hasn't used it much, .223 has always dropped the deer he has shot.

Good thing I wouldn't wager much :p

Originally Posted by ebf

I don't know, maybe I am missing something obvious, but just don't get the point of ARs.

Why spend $2k minimum on something that is not significantly lighter than a modern bolt rifle ?

Then you get the thing, and almost immediately start taking bits off, accessorising with other trick bits, often it seems spending at least as much again as the bare rifle price...

Plus half the ones I see at the local NZDA range are jamming or suffering from issues.

What is the attraction ? Modularity ? Barrel swops - I mean a basic new upper is $1.5K, that's a bolt gun with medium glass for me...

Or is to the fact that it is a semi, and lighter/ better than mini14, m305 clones etc ? Or is it that you can customise it with a wide variety of aftermarket parts ?

I have the same thoughts - if you're culling goats or something that needs an accurate semi I can understand, or if you're into the specific competition stuff that suits them.

Otherwise... yeh I dunno. Most of the ones that are as light as a bolt action seem to get there by having skinny 12-14" barrels, so portable and handy but they're losing a fair bit of velocity and possibly accuracy as well.

Each to their own and all that, I'm sure they're fun and if you like them its probably all the reason you need, but I struggle to see the point for most people.

I'm currently looking too but I certainly don't "Need" an AR15 ......... I just "Want" one.

I blame Mark for this .... If he hadn't of said here have a go with this then I probably would have never bothered.

Problem was I liked it and thought bugger me I "Want" one of these.

Will use it for Shooting Goats and Ringing Gongs out to several hundred meters and maybe a service rifle or three gun match or two.

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by P38

I'm currently looking too but I certainly don't "Need" an AR15 ......... I just "Want" one.

I blame Mark for this .... If he hadn't of said here have a go with this then I probably would have never bothered.

Problem was I liked it and thought bugger me I "Want" one of these.

Will use it for Shooting Goats and Ringing Gongs out to several hundred meters and maybe a service rifle or three gun match or two.

Cheers
Pete

Better get one soon before they stop being imported here.

Originally Posted by ebf

Plus half the ones I see at the local NZDA range are jamming or suffering from issues.

Were most of those rifles suppressed by any chance?

I just WANT one .... and I like the look of them .... plus EBF , pam said she would run off with me if I got an AR .....
always wanted an ar, since army days , ... even thought about a steyr aug , .... still may if the steyr comes down in price ...... had an SLR (l1a1) ...but sold yonks ago ....I like cool looking guns (well what I think is cool) ....so an NEA is on my horizon .....

Ar308s are heavy, yes. As a hunting rig an ar308 with an acog is capable of hitting steel plates at 500 meters consistantly with good factory ammo. Providing the shooter has taken the time to know whats happening with their ballistics and sorted there rig out to their advantage. My boltguns are reduntant now because of this. ARs are much of a muchness. There really isnt a best brand in my view. There is only wank factor and trying to impress your mates with how much money you have.

Thanks Beavis, nice reply, food for thought.

Stumpy, hahaha ! She does not like the long guns, and especially shotties. Very little change of 3 gun competitor.

Originally Posted by Towely

Ar308s are heavy, yes. As a hunting rig an ar308 with an acog is capable of hitting steel plates at 500 meters consistantly with good factory ammo. Providing the shooter has taken the time to know whats happening with their ballistics and sorted there rig out to their advantage. My boltguns are reduntant now because of this. ARs are much of a muchness. There really isnt a best brand in my view. There is only wank factor and trying to impress your mates with how much money you have.

I would say yes there is a lot of wank involved, but I would also say that the AR platform is less forgiving of shit metals and poor tolerances/assembly than other designs.