Thread: Calibre and Barrel Length Decision......

Originally Posted by Mathias

The real issue is rifles that have an exposed cocking piece or indicator that is directly part of or connected to the firing pin. A bloody good whack on these and it will likely discharge and that is just plain unsafe!

Like a Tikka?

Originally Posted by Gibo

Like a Tikka?

A Tikka is under cover (plastic) but does have an indicator, though this is not really exposed. I personally just don't condone the practice.

Originally Posted by Mathias

The real issue is rifles that have an exposed cocking piece or indicator that is directly part of or connected to the firing pin. A bloody good whack on these and it will likely discharge and that is just plain unsafe!

Good point.
The T3's cocking indicator is completely hidden under the bolt shroud when decocked.

I see, thanks for highlighting these points. I could never quite decipher this story which was most probably told to me while twisting tops off brown bottles a wee while ago.
Sorry for thread highjack maxx...keep the 260 std or chop and can the 308 bro.

leaving a live round in the chamber on a decocked bolt IS NOT SAFE

Regardless of whether the back end of the firing pin assembly is exposed or not, there is still a risk of discharge as the pin is sitting on the primer and under spring tension, so a heavy bump on the stock can be sufficient to bounce the firing pin causing a discharge.

I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.

Originally Posted by Shearer

I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.

Easy enough, prepped case with primer ONLY in it & full your boots...

BTW primers are pretty loud so be careful where you do this

Oh & naturally keep the pointy end away from you

Originally Posted by Shearer

I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.

I'm with Shearer on this.

The de cocked firing pin will still be in a very strong tension on most bolt guns. Good luck trying to bounce the the rifle hard enough to get enough energy for the firing pin to travel back (at all) and forth to strike the primer.

Originally Posted by Shearer

I must be the odd one out here. I own two T3s. When I go hunting I chamber a round and put the safety on. If I see game, I disengage the safety and shoot it. If I don't, I unload the rifle at the end of the hunt. If I was a position that I did"t trust the safety (clambering around sketchy country maybe) I disengage the safety, squeeze the trigger and close the bolt (decocked on a live round). Pretty safe I recon. In order for it to fire the bolt would have to be lifted and closed again which is pretty hard to do accidently. When I am ready to start hunting again I lift the bolt, close it, and engage the safety. Done.
Even the rifles I can top load from I never actually find a need to.

It seems as though you have acquired a couple of bad habits and haven't thought through what is actually going on. Firstly, calling a trigger blocking lever a safety is where the head problem starts. A mechanical device is not a safety. If you think that a firearm is safe after engaging a mechanical block then you trust that it won't fire and will end up pointing it in all sorts of unlikely directions. The only safe rifle is an empty one that you treat as loaded at all times. The safety for a firearm is what is happening between a shooters ears.
A primer is a delicate explosive device, designed to be detonated by having the compound crushed between the anvil and the cup by the impact of the firing pin. A de-cocked firing pin spring is always under compression. De-cock your bolt when it's out of your rifle, then try pushing the firing pin back flush with the bolt face if you doubt this.
It is the inertia of the firing pin assembly that could allow it to travel away from the primer under the impact of a fall or being dropped, and return under spring pressure with enough force to set off the primer. Some firearm designs have a floating firing pin, some times held away from the primer by a light spring. These floating pins are in turn hit by a hammer which energises them. Your Tikka in not made this way. When you close your de-cocked bolt on a live round your firing pin is sitting on a live primer, under pressure, waiting for a jolt or knock to energise it.
Firearms safety is about good habits.

Originally Posted by Shearer

I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.

ok tried it today with a primed case spent just under an hour and couldn't get it to go off I would of nearly fuked my scope and rifle if I got rougher with it

Originally Posted by JWB

It seems as though you have acquired a couple of bad habits and haven't thought through what is actually going on. Firstly, calling a trigger blocking lever a safety is where the head problem starts. A mechanical device is not a safety. If you think that a firearm is safe after engaging a mechanical block then you trust that it won't fire and will end up pointing it in all sorts of unlikely directions. The only safe rifle is an empty one that you treat as loaded at all times. The safety for a firearm is what is happening between a shooters ears.
A primer is a delicate explosive device, designed to be detonated by having the compound crushed between the anvil and the cup by the impact of the firing pin. A de-cocked firing pin spring is always under compression. De-cock your bolt when it's out of your rifle, then try pushing the firing pin back flush with the bolt face if you doubt this.
It is the inertia of the firing pin assembly that could allow it to travel away from the primer under the impact of a fall or being dropped, and return under spring pressure with enough force to set off the primer. Some firearm designs have a floating firing pin, some times held away from the primer by a light spring. These floating pins are in turn hit by a hammer which energises them. Your Tikka in not made this way. When you close your de-cocked bolt on a live round your firing pin is sitting on a live primer, under pressure, waiting for a jolt or knock to energise it.
Firearms safety is about good habits.

Seems to me you comment is full of contradiction.
Mechanical safety's DO work. Try and fire my T3 with the safety engaged. I have known shooters to nearly straighten their trigger trying to shoot game with the safety on. Americans firearm manufacturers condone their safety devices and in the liability capital of the world, they would be stupid to make one that doesn't work. The only reason it will not work is if it is not engaged.
I am VERY conscious of where I point a firearm - loaded or not, and having (and using) a safety has not and does not alter that fact.
If it is not possible to push the firing pin back when a rifle is decocked, how is the inertia from a fall going to push it back enough to detonate the primer???
You are correct. Firearms safety is about good habits, not misguided paranoia.

Originally Posted by Shearer

Seems to me you comment is full of contradiction.
Mechanical safety's DO work. Try and fire my T3 with the safety engaged. I have known shooters to nearly straighten their trigger trying to shoot game with the safety on. Americans firearm manufacturers condone their safety devices and in the liability capital of the world, they would be stupid to make one that doesn't work. The only reason it will not work is if it is not engaged.
I am VERY conscious of where I point a firearm - loaded or not, and having (and using) a safety has not and does not alter that fact.
If it is not possible to push the firing pin back when a rifle is decocked, how is the inertia from a fall going to push it back enough to detonate the primer???
You are correct. Firearms safety is about good habits, not misguided paranoia.

Mechanical locks work when they leave the factory. They will work until they don't work. Murphy is a bastard! Take risks with your own safety by all means, but be considerate when among others.

Originally Posted by JWB

Mechanical locks work when they leave the factory. They will work until they don't work. Murphy is a bastard! Take risks with your own safety by all means, but be considerate when among others.

Thanks, I will. As I said in a previous post, when hunting with others I always have an empty chamber until I am ready to fire. This is not because I feel how I normally hunt is unsafe, rather it is for the other persons peace of mind. I would expect the same in return.

Interesting...I'm happy to resign that one to a theoretical high road. Thanks Northdude, I hope your scope reticles aren't shaking around loose after your testing.
How about the old chestnut of the "half cock" bolt position. Safe? I find that when moved down a little with the trigger pulled it will slam fire. I think this could inadvertently happen in the bush and would only use it in combo action with the safety on.