Thread: a cat endorsed onto your e cat

Originally Posted by Spanners

My understanding is you need a Dealers license to mfg....

That's if you're manufacturing to sell. DIY'ers can make firearms without a Dealers license, but must comply with the law in terms of possession and security requirements for the particular type.

From NZ PAM Section 7.2 1. Persons who wish to manufacture firearms, pistols, MSSA’s or restricted weapons for their
own use are subject to the licensing provisions of the Arms Act 1983. They must hold a
Firearms Licence and any necessary endorsement, and a permit to procure (pistols, MSSA’s
and restricted weapons).

Originally Posted by gimp

Which makes it interesting as to how it's recorded on your license.

It's recorded against your license in the Firearms sub-system of the Police Computer (effectively "registration") though, according to the Police Firearms manual, those details are supposed to be "cleared" after you have presented the firearm to the AO for confirmation of its type and details and that those match the paperwork (Permit To Procure or whatever). I'm quite sure the "cleared" part is not happening in many cases, mine for sure, because when I'm inspected, they bring a list of what MSSA's and Restricted Weapons they expect to see when they get here. I actually don't have a problem with that, at least not around those categories.

Originally Posted by R93

Righto, stupid question time
I hold an E endorsed licence. I do not own at this time any E cat firearms. If say, I borrow a high mag capacity capable A cat rifle, in an AR platform and slap one of my 30rnd mags in it, technically converting it to E cat, is that a no no or is it all good because I hold an E endorced licence?

In your case, the police have overlooked cancelling one or more endorsements that you had in respect of MSSA firearms that you previously owned. The endorsement(s) are effectively a nullity.

You cannot use MSSA features on a semi-automatic firearm unless you hold an endorsement for THAT firearm. I.E. there is no such thing as a "general" endorsement.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

I'm not too sure, but has the court ruling effectively annulled the E license endorsement. Going back to the law, as it was passed my parliament rather than the police interpretation, has court ruled that the firearm itself has to be 'attached' to the license holder. A way around this is to 'manufacture' (what we have previously called an E-Cat) MSSA and simply hand the police a form stating that you have (or more correctly time wise will) manufactured the firearm instead.

The court has not annulled what you refer to as an "E licence" endorsement. There is no such a thing in law as an 'E licence' or an 'E endorsement'; nor has there ever been such a thing. A [fill in your alphabetic letter here] endorsement is and always has been a figment of police imagination. At no time has such an endorsement existed in law.

Here is what an endorsement looks like

{Firearm} <-> [Endorsement] <-> {Licence} <-> {licence holder}

An endorsement is required for:

A Pistol
A Military style semiautomatic firearm
A Restricted Weapon

Each of these three types of firearms is defined in the Arms Act, s2 and augmented by regulations (Arms Regulations 1992)

A, E, B, F etc endorsements are defined nowhere; they do not exist, nada, null, nothing, nil, zilch and so on and so on. They carry the same status as a 'Fixed overhead Twizzlers' endorsement... i.e there is no such a thing !

Where can I get my "Fixed overhead Twizzlers" endorsement? I reckon it will come in handy, especially seeing the one printed on my FA licence doesnt exist

so if the an endorsement is required for each firearm, and you have to apply for and pay $204 per endorsement, everytime you acquire (or want to acquire) a new firearm, thats is gonna get costly. much better to only require a permit to procure at no cost?
so if i decide i want a new pistol to shoot open class, for example, i have to pay another $204 endorsement fee, sounds fucking stupid to me, i dont like paying out my hard earned money on bullshit like that.

I'm inclined to wait and see what comes down officially and how it is interpreted and worked. More transparency and consistency would be great, as well as streamlining.

Originally Posted by R93

"Fixed overhead Twizzlers"

Synonymous with "Rotary Wings" perhaps, and you already have that rating don't yer?

Originally Posted by ishoot10s

Synonymous with "Rotary Wings" perhaps, and you already have that rating don't yer?

No, no , no.................. You may be getting confused with my angry palm tree endorsment.

Originally Posted by gimp

I'm inclined to wait and see what comes down officially and how it is interpreted and worked. More transparency and consistency would be great, as well as streamlining.

+1

It will likely only be an interim situation till new legislation is sorted out.

Oh god the last thing we need is more legislation written by and voted on by morons with absolutely no idea what they're doing

hasn't the endorsement fee for each MSSA or pistol been around for a while ?

Originally Posted by ebf

hasn't the endorsement fee for each MSSA or pistol been around for a while ?

?
i have a couple of endorsements on licence, and several endorsed firearms and have only every payed $204 fee once. all done in last few years

So basically, the system which has been in place for (dare I say it) B,C,E firearms for the last 20? Yrs isn't legal and regardless of the fact of how it worked and people and the police worked with it, the 'NSA' is now telling us it doesn't exist and using the favorite word is 'illegal' on the polices part.

What EXACTLY is the whole point of this exercise and what is it going to achieve?

1-Black and white, at the end of all this bullshit, what is joes blogs 'A' cat firearms license holder and Jim Bob who has B and E endorsements on his plastic license ACTUALLY going to achieve??
2-if through a fuckup in your own terminology or definition of anything after a legal ruleing; we the firearm owing population loose some or ANY ground, what responsibility are you the 'NSA' (a minority group not speaking for the majority of FAL holders) going to take?

Originally Posted by gimp

Oh god the last thing we need is more legislation written by and voted on by morons with absolutely no idea what they're doing

The good thing is they've already been trying for a few years now but have failed on account of the mess they've already made through past attempts. I think this last case hase made things worse for anyone trying to do anything now, working withing the current framework, goes.