Thread: E-CAT Endorsement Requirements

The adult DVD titles might be a bit much for them though.

I quite like G rated movies too, but only if there's lots of sex and violence

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

I imagine Catcher In The Rye and Mein Kampf might not be the best to put down

Glad they didn't ask for my B cat about what movies are in my collection... Hitman, Shooter, Punisher and the soon to be added Dredd might raise a few red flags hehe.

On the other hand, bambi would worry me more....



I can just imagine it now......what would pass through the AO's mind, "oh god I bet he'll be polishing his AR15 while watching" bambi....

Originally Posted by steven

On the other hand, bambi would worry me more....

Twisted hehe


... and singing, "This is my rifle this is my gun, this is for fighting and this is for fun"

FWIW, having relatively recently got around to going through the E & B cat process, and having asked the same questions along the way (being a lawyer, I like to know the rules) here's my experience:

It was difficult getting firm information, but the process for me was smooth and trouble free (although you do need to be patient).

It seems the lack of definitive guidance may be intentional - a means of affording the police a fair degree of discretion. That said, there's plenty of info in the Arms Act, Arms Regulations, and Police Firearm's Manual. There's a lot of incorrect information on the web (gasp), so if you're serious and want to know, it's worth while reading the information available.

Most that have gone through the process will tell you that the police probably won't "encourage" you through the process. They may even seem to be a little "unhelpful" or "difficult". It's up to you to convince them that you're suitable to hold endorsements (rightly so IMHO). Remember, they have to structure their processes for the lowest common denominator and the process is a good way of weeding out the idiots and/or those that aren't really serious (do you really want them running around with AR's?). And before complaining that it's too difficult, remember, there are a lot of countries that have it a lot worse than us (Aussie & UK anyone?) - we've got it pretty sweet here (although perhaps not as sweet as the US!).

Regarding references, it would seem that:
- The Police have a fair degree of discretion
- The quality of your references really is key, and will determine the number ultimately required
- Each district seems to have a slightly different approach
- For E alone, my understanding is that the minimum is usually two referees and your spouse. Your spouse will be interviewed - butter her up well in advance
- It seems that at least one of your referees must be "endorsed" and preferably hold the same endorsement as you. The endorsement held may however, not necessarily be crucial. For example, it may be possible for a dealer to be sufficient for an E. As mentioned, this is where the police discretion kicks in, and the key seems to come down to the quality of any particular reference. Bull$&it references are easy to spot. The comment made to me was that someone responsible who knows you well but holds a different but suitable endorsement, is better than someone who holds an E but doesn't know you well.
- You may not get far if none of your referees are endorsed.
- Additional referees may be required, but they may not be interviewed
- Out of town referees are acceptable, but it will take a lot longer as your file gets sent to the vetter in the other area, the interview conducted, and the file returned. IMHO, having one vetter involved would have to be preferable...
- As I understand it, family members as referees (spouse excluded) are discouraged. Likewise with "someone from the range" that doesn't really know you.
- For me in Auckland: my spouse was interviewed, I had the Pistol NZ endorsement (mandatory for the B), one quality "endorsed" reference (dealer/E/C who I've known for 20+ years), and one quality personal reference (known for 10+ years, A-cat, and former B-cat). Both my referees were middle-age professionals, and what you'd probably call persons of "good standing". I know others that have struggled with their 25 year old mate of a year as a referee.....

Security - this may ruffle a few feathers but to be honest, if you're too cheap and irresponsible to arrange appropriate E-cat security, then IMHO you're probably not responsible enough to hold an endorsement. Yes it's a hassle, but the current minimum A-cat security requirements are a joke. If you do have genuine reasons for an E Endorsement, chances are security will probably be the one of the cheapest expenses in the long run, and it's there to protect a very "desirable" and dangerous commodity. You'll also have somewhere safe to store your wedding ring while you're on the turps......

As for your reasons for requesting an E-cat application - they have already been mentioned variously in previous posts. What I will add is that, again, it's probably very easy to spot the bull$hiters - if you actually have a genuine reason (i.e. a "need") for holding an E, then it should be obvious to you, and should make it easy to satisfy the police. Put all your reasons on the application (but only if they're genuine), because that's what the police will refer back to if there's ever any issue. Word of warning - if you put "hunting" down, you're going to have to be very convincing as to why you an MSSA is needed for hunting (you can use it for hunting, but is it "needed"). If you're working the other way around, have decided you want to be E endorsed, and are now looking for a reason - best go join some appropriate clubs, do your time, pay your dues, and earn it.....

Hope that helps. E&OE - remember this is just my experience, and I can't guarantee any of it is actually correct, nor that your experience will be the same.

I wonder if "iv spent a lot of money on an ar15 and I an concerned that the upcoming law change will make it illegal for me to own, and iv grown quite attached to it" counts as a valid reason

Originally Posted by Bill999

I wonder if "iv spent a lot of money on an ar15 and I an concerned that the upcoming law change will make it illegal for me to own, and iv grown quite attached to it" counts as a valid reason

I think you know the answer to that one.

Thanks murky - that was a cogent first post.

My opinion of lawyers has been raised a little

Thanks murky.
That's the sort of info I was after.

Bill999 - that's also where I'm coming from.

I've also spend a lot of time and money on my AR and use it a lot as it's my only centrefire at the moment.
I'm only looking at getting the E endorsement due to the change in regulations, brought on by knee jerk political reactions.

Security upgrading isn't an issue for me. I'll be doing that anyway. I'm more than happy to be able to get a better/bigger safe.

I will wait in anticipation to see what/if they will do to help those of us with rifles that may get reclassified as E-CAT.

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

Twisted hehe


... and singing, "This is my rifle this is my gun, this is for fighting and this is for fun"

Wish I has a $ for every time I had to repeat that ditty.

I would have been a wealthy young man after 8 weeks basic training.

Cheers
Pete

Problems I have with E-cat security:


-It's going to be very very difficult for me to implement either of the required methods of securing the safe in my house. There's no underfloor access or concrete floors. I will have to literally rip up the floor.

-Is there actually any proof at all that the bigger heavier and vastly more expensive safe actually reduces theft?

Originally Posted by gimp

Problems I have with E-cat security:


-It's going to be very very difficult for me to implement either of the required methods of securing the safe in my house. There's no underfloor access or concrete floors. I will have to literally rip up the floor.

-Is there actually any proof at all that the bigger heavier and vastly more expensive safe actually reduces theft?

Gimp

The bastards that burgled me barely put a scratch on my safe trying to bust into it.

It's made from 12mm steel and weighs 370kgs.

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by P38

Gimp

The bastards that burgled me barely put a scratch on my safe trying to bust into it.

It's made from 12mm steel and weighs 370kgs.

Cheers
Pete

Do you believe that a standard A-cat safe would have been insufficient? I am genuinely curious to see any information on this because it's very easy to go "well bigger safe = better" but that may not really be the case at all. I am interested to know.

Originally Posted by gimp

Do you believe that a standard A-cat safe would have been insufficient? I am genuinely curious to see any information on this because it's very easy to go "well bigger safe = better" but that may not really be the case at all. I am interested to know.

Your right an A cat safe would have been sufficient in this case.
In fact they never discovered my A Cat safe, so didn't have a go at it.

It all depends on how determined you are, what tools you have with you and what skills you have.

With the right equipment it would take me 15 minutes to break in and clean out my E cat safe.

I accidently set the alarm off the other night ..... two patrol cars were on site within 3 minutes with the officers asking me who the Fu*k I was.

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by P38

It all depends on how determined you are, what tools you have with you and what skills you have.

This.

A cat would stop an opportunistic burglar, slow down a well planned one with the correct gear. E cat would slow down the well planned burglar even more, and if it slows them down it's (A) a good deterrent and (B) creates a higher opportunity of being caught due to noise and time. Obviously it also depends on where you live - someone with a grinder at 2am in the city is going to attract more attention than someone living inland from Gore.

The only way to stop any burglar is to store your firearms in a concrete vault, inside a bank, which lives underground in a mountain.