Thread: In ear hearing protectors - Recommendations

Originally Posted by Mrfants

Meant fb (decibel) level.

..

Will keep looking in the market to see what suits -Pelotor may have to be the option ...

Decibels is abbreviated to dB. "fb" is possibly feedback but that's of no relevance here.

I think you're actually asking about attenuation, ie, the effectiveness of blocking out sound. I only once measured my plugs on a "real ear" probe mic system and from rough memory, they were giving a good 35dB attenuation from 1K up. You will only get that outcome from a good fit and this is the result of high-quality impressions and correct treatment by the shell lab. If either of those isn't good, the fit will be hopeless and the electronics won't save you.

I've only had experience with Peltor muffs so can't comment on any in-the-ear options.

Originally Posted by 6x47

Decibels is abbreviated to dB. "fb" is possibly feedback but that's of no relevance here.

I think you're actually asking about attenuation, ie, the effectiveness of blocking out sound. I only once measured my plugs on a "real ear" probe mic system and from rough memory, they were giving a good 35dB attenuation from 1K up. You will only get that outcome from a good fit and this is the result of high-quality impressions and correct treatment by the shell lab. If either of those isn't good, the fit will be hopeless and the electronics won't save you.

I've only had experience with Peltor muffs so can't comment on any in-the-ear options.

Great point - yes attenuation is what Im after. I have seen some of the electronic in ears but they come with harder plastic earpieces, which would do nothjing to seal the eardrum. The other thing Im looking for though is the ability for the earpiece to allow me to hear people nearby and understand what theyre saying. Some non electronic ones I had years ago allowed that, but that was in loud on stage band interractions, so I could hear the vocalist while I was drumming.
Not sure you can get anything like that?

For your interest, here's the attenuation of my latest set. Red line is right ear without plugs, blue is left ear without plugs, grey is with plugs in but turned off. Vertical axis is dB, horizontal axis is frequency (Hz). My audiologist and I did this for interest I picked up my new set. It's just done with standard tones rather than simulated gunshots or anything, and it's a test of the fit effectiveness rather than the electronics. But as you can see, they block pretty darn well (and they're made of the hard plastic which you mention).



And a picture of the plugs themselves.

Originally Posted by PaulNZ

For your interest, here's the attenuation of my latest set. Red line is right ear without plugs, blue is left ear without plugs, grey is with plugs in but turned off. Vertical axis is dB, horizontal axis is frequency (Hz). My audiologist and I did this for interest I picked up my new set. It's just done with standard tones rather than simulated gunshots or anything, and it's a test of the fit effectiveness rather than the electronics. But as you can see, they block pretty darn well (and they're made of the hard plastic which you mention).

Attachment 273280

And a picture of the plugs themselves.

Attachment 273284

Thx for posting v interesting and ear pieces look very well made


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https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...s-anz-2023.pdf

These are the Peltor ones.

Originally Posted by 6x47

As I said, the plugs I have (two pairs actually) are entirely custom built from high-end hearing aid components. Not only were they one-offs but the custom shell fabrication was another challenge. The mics were shifted from their normal place to give far greater wind protection.

Before I retired, I tried to get some more made for a mate but even by calling in some favours, it just wasn't possible. Without getting into the specifics, ironically the current electronics lack a feature necessary to handle that sort of impulse noise.

There are clearly some current options for electronic plugs but getting these built into decent custom shells is the real problem. Many of the "fit-all" proprietary options use multi-flange soft tips that either don't seal well and/or don't anchor securely.

Good luck in your search. I'm guessing the musician's plugs you mention are the Etymotic Research ones? I don't understand what you mean by "fb level minimum".

Sounds like a market opportunity for someone...

There is a very limited market for these type of plugs given the cost would be well over $1000/pr. I sold maybe 40-50 pairs of these true customs like PaulNZ just showed. In fact, I still have my -old- Starkey Sportsmasters that look near identical but the "soft acrylic' shells are a bit broken down and irrepairable.

Those multi-flange tips on those Peltors that No.3 put a link to are exactly what I was referring to in an earlier post. In a good 20% of cases, the acoustic seal will be poor because the ear canal is partially "collapsed" on the first bend, as well as several other issues. The security of fit is also very tenuous in many cases and it wouldn't make your day to lose one out hunting...

Originally Posted by 6x47

There is a very limited market for these type of plugs given the cost would be well over $1000/pr. I sold maybe 40-50 pairs of these true customs like PaulNZ just showed. In fact, I still have my -old- Starkey Sportsmasters that look near identical but the "soft acrylic' shells are a bit broken down and irrepairable.

Those multi-flange tips on those Peltors that No.3 put a link to are exactly what I was referring to in an earlier post. In a good 20% of cases, the acoustic seal will be poor because the ear canal is partially "collapsed" on the first bend, as well as several other issues. The security of fit is also very tenuous in many cases and it wouldn't make your day to lose one out hunting...

Correct, but having said that they come with a cord. Also, the tips come in several sizes and styles including multi flange and soft solid more like a disposable - if you follow the fit instructions and sort out the right size and right tip they work well. I guess the problem with that is that good 20% of cases come about because the wearer/user doesn't read the instructions and understand how to fit them and check for the correct fit. It does take a wee bit to learn to do this correctly, but once you have it sorted it's quite easy and obvious when they aren't fitted right.

I would go one step further and say that the majority of cases where the plugs aren't working right, it's due to the fact the wrong size or type of tip is fitted and the wearer finds them too uncomfortable when the plug is in the right place. So they leave them hanging half out of the ear and relying on two or one flange out of the three which is never going to work!

Originally Posted by 6x47

There is a very limited market for these type of plugs given the cost would be well over $1000/pr. I sold maybe 40-50 pairs of these true customs like PaulNZ just showed. In fact, I still have my -old- Starkey Sportsmasters that look near identical but the "soft acrylic' shells are a bit broken down and irrepairable.

Those multi-flange tips on those Peltors that No.3 put a link to are exactly what I was referring to in an earlier post. In a good 20% of cases, the acoustic seal will be poor because the ear canal is partially "collapsed" on the first bend, as well as several other issues. The security of fit is also very tenuous in many cases and it wouldn't make your day to lose one out hunting...

Would it be fair to say that the seal over the ear canal should be fully enclosed ie with a moulded plastic basically covering the main part of the ear? (I don’t know what I’m talk about just trying to explain).
All the models only seem to have rubber of foam plugs and if the foam bounces back to quickly, apparently it’s hard to get a seal?
The older ‘ear protectors’ I had made for music years ago in Chch were great - audiologist took my ear mould and made them and they fitted tight and snug every time.


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Originally Posted by No.3

...- if you follow the fit instructions and sort out the right size and right tip they work well. I guess the problem with that is that good 20% of cases come about because the wearer/user doesn't read the instructions and understand how to fit them and check for the correct fit. ..

If you read what I said again, you will see it is an -anatomical- reason the acoustic seal will never be acceptable for this small proportion of users. No amount of intelligence/persistence/reading will get past this. This issue is largely why plugs are never as well rated as muffs.

Originally Posted by Mrfants

Would it be fair to say that the seal over the ear canal should be fully enclosed ie with a moulded plastic basically covering the main part of the ear? (I don’t know what I’m talk about just trying to explain).
All the models only seem to have rubber or foam plugs and if the foam bounces back to quickly, apparently it’s hard to get a seal?
The older ‘ear protectors’ I had made for music years ago in Chch were great - audiologist took my ear mould and made them and they fitted tight and snug every time.

..

Yes, just as I was saying.

Originally Posted by 6x47

If you read what I said again, you will see it is an -anatomical- reason the acoustic seal will never be acceptable for this small proportion of users. No amount of intelligence/persistence/reading will get past this. This issue is largely why plugs are never as well rated as muffs.

I'm not too sure what the issue is here but I recall this discussion before - if you are stating that some people can't use earplugs because they don't work on them then yep 100% agree. What I'm saying is that if you don't set earplugs up right, even if you can use them - you aren't going to put in place the conditions that they need to work regardless of and before any other reason that they won't work for you. Step one is get them fitted right and if it's needed getting assistance to ensure that you have the correct components to allow this to happen, and if you can't get them to work going to see a specialist to find out why as everything else you try will likely not work. If you don't go through that part of the job, even if earplugs could work for you they just won't - and by far the largest number of people that have issues with earplugs will be in this category.

You also could add to this that there are a certain number of people out there with skull shapes that mean that they cannot get earmuffs to seal - usually mastoid process but occasionally the configuration of the lower jaw bones and hinges and the way the skull dips away under the ear causes this too. Also like people that spend hundreds on flash-as earmuffs then chuck them on their head over their cap and sunglasses...

Some people just can't do noisy environments.