Thread: Educate me on bushpigs

Originally Posted by MSL

14.5” 308. Owned the same rifle unsuppressed before this one, and it was a dog to shoot.

Is there such thing as a Kimber that ISN'T a dog to shoot?

Does this count?

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Does this count?
Attachment 98697

confused bush pig

Originally Posted by Sidney

Well looks might be deceiving - It has a 16.5inch barrel and the stock forend is shorter than most. As setup it is a 22" overall barrel length with suppressor on it. The can is 80mm back and 150mm forward and it is that way to enable it to be used in a MDT ESS chassis with a 12" forend.

I might end up using another can on it for bush work at 80mm forward and 150mm back. That will end up at <20" overall barrel length with suppressor and the gap between stock and can will be small.

Is it just the small gap that makes it a bush pig do you think? Or is it the overall length?

It's got nothing to do with looks or genetic predisposition. If your rifle "feels" like a bushpig, that's all that matters.

It's bad enough that the human race is experiencing identity/gender issues.

Now our firearms don't even know what the hell they are.

My rifle doesn't even know what caliber it is

Original Bushpig.
Spanish Mauser FR8

Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk

Back in the day the salty old bastards in Mt Isa QLD taught me not to pass up on the occasional bush pig, cos the slighty ugly girls tried that much harder and would probably teach me a thing or two. They did. When I came to NZ some 20 yrs later imagine my confusion when I overheard blokes in the pub openly talking about their bush pigs, how handy they were in the tight stuff, how the speed wasn’t quite there but they still hit hard. This, I thought, is concerning. Luckily all was revealed, but I have chosen not to adopt the term, as it takes me back to times and places best archived permanently... so carbine it is.

I didn't have time to read the whole thread but a good option is the Bergara BA13TD take downs. I own one in the 308 16.5 inch stainless. It's is a tack driver. Then there is no gunsmithing cost as it is already threaded. It's a lot shorter than a bolt action. It's trigger is pretty impressive for a rifle that can be had for $799. It has a fats twist that will stabilise any bullet more or less and don't let that fool you it's shoots 150g PPU into 1.5 inchs every time when I broke in the barrel and it loves the 168 ELD M Superformance factory load with all groups shot going sub MOA expect 1. It's still 2620-2650fps depending on the lot number. I have a load for the 225 ELD M. Going 2340fps that should hammer just fine tuning seating depth now. And it can also be used as a perfect platform for subs. Plus a take down is pretty nice.

Some beautiful bush pigs been posted in here boys getting me really keen on them aye, Even the waikato ones hahahaah

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Does this count?
Attachment 98697

Yeah. That would be a complete pig in the bush.

Originally Posted by Sidney

Never said that it would eliminate hearing loss... however the implication is obvious... less noise = less damage. <140Db vs 165DB+ is a significant difference in damage. Also suppressors are always on your rifle, unlike hearing protection not being always in your ears. Also there are significant disadvantages with having to manage hearing protection. Batteries, moisture, not losing them, wind noise, river noise. I have both suppressors and electronic ear protection and frankly for bush hunting they are next to useless

I did agree saying suppressors helped a bit. I find elec muffs very good, nothing is perfect though but I can celebrate differences from you.

Originally Posted by Sidney

Yeah well normal people shoot more with more identified opportunities to do so. Identifying opportunities comes from getting better at identifying them. Clearly your different...

Never claimed to be normal. As I got better I shot less, better shooting so fewer shots needed and got more selective, simply didnt feel any need to shoot just because I had the opportunity. If you shoot everything when you have the opportunity then that's another difference we can celebrate.

Originally Posted by Sidney

Bullocks - try shooting slow powders through pistols and getting the same performance... everything is a continuum chap and slow powder performance gets optimised in longer barrels. Conversely faster powers are optimised in shorter barrels.

I think you mean "Ballistics".
The best powder for velocity is dictated by the bullet /cartridge relationship irrelevant of barrel lenght. Standard pistol cartridges are small in case size, large in caliber and generally light for cal bullets. That is a recipe for fast powder. A slower powder would work better but you simply cant fit enough of it in the case. Put that pistol cal in a carbine and the recipe will remain the same. Take a larger cartridge say 7mm08, compare the published data for both pistol and rifle, you will find the powder recommendations will be around the same in burn rate. IIRC I think 2208 is very popular for both.
i could drag up the graphs of chamber pressure , bullet travel , area under curve etc Like I have in the past but I cant be arsed doing it all again so do some research and find out for yourself or cling to your misconception.

Originally Posted by Sidney

Who would really know?

Thats weak, you would have been better leaving that blank.

I did agree saying suppressors helped a bit. I find elec muffs very good, nothing is perfect though but I can celebrate differences from you.

Are you a tree stand hunter? I have been aware of some claims that modern electronics can filter out background noise and wind noise, but wearing muffs while actively hunting is just unpleasant.

Never claimed to be normal. As I got better I shot less, better shooting so fewer shots needed and got more selective, simply didnt feel any need to shoot just because I had the opportunity. If you shoot everything when you have the opportunity then that's another difference we can celebrate.

It was an obvious point that you seem intent on missing sort of like the noise issue being significantly lessened above. You ought to work out the difference between hunting and shooting.

I think you mean "Ballistics".
The best powder for velocity is dictated by the bullet /cartridge relationship irrelevant of barrel lenght. Standard pistol cartridges are small in case size, large in caliber and generally light for cal bullets. That is a recipe for fast powder. A slower powder would work better but you simply cant fit enough of it in the case. Put that pistol cal in a carbine and the recipe will remain the same. Take a larger cartridge say 7mm08, compare the published data for both pistol and rifle, you will find the powder recommendations will be around the same in burn rate. IIRC I think 2208 is very popular for both.
i could drag up the graphs of chamber pressure , bullet travel , area under curve etc Like I have in the past but I cant be arsed doing it all again so do some research and find out for yourself or cling to your misconception.

Well I just might have to... because I don't see anything other than talk about it, rather than some actual testing of the specific idea. Chamber size may have material effect on the suitability of powder selection in terms of how fast it is, but what I haven't seen is say a direct comparison between the same 22" barrel and 16" barrel with faster and slower powders and the same projectiles in order to determine what exactly happens... in say a 708/308 of the type of rifle that we are talking about here.

While pressure and burn can be understood simply enough in theory, the effect of faster burn/slower burn, on velocity and acceleration in longer and shorter barrels with those different powders, is probably best established by experiment.

What may have be happening locally of course is that when the active promoters of the short barrel suppressed rifle concepts are building these things, they also tend to drop projectile weights when chopping the barrels... that makes the actual effect somewhat murky...

However when differing powders have different outcomes in the same length barrel with the same projectiles loaded to the same max safe pressures, it would appear irrational to suggest that is not the case when barrel length is changed. Your argument of course is that performance remains constant whilst shortened relatively speaking. I haven't seen that being obvious in my playing around..

Of course I have never suggested that I can regain all of the speed lost simply by moving to a faster powder. Just that a faster powder might be more efficient at getting faster speeds in shorter barrels everything else being equal.

I would like to see a specific experiment.. if you are aware of one.. but relying on load data from inconsistent sources is hardly conclusive..

I ran some numbers through quickload last night as I was working up some loads for a 16" barreled .308.
Its only a prediction of course, but I ran the numbers using a 175gr sierra matchking at max loads with both AR2206 and AR2208 powder. It was predicted that the AR2208 although a slower powder, still pushed a higher velocity than the faster burning 2206 through the 16" barrel.
You could of course fit more of the 2206 in the case so could potentially run a charge above the max published load and get more velocity then you could with the slower burning powder - as you can only fit so much of the slower powder in the case.

Just do it bro. Haters gonna hate.

16" mod 7. Shes 2.7 kg all up and not too bad to shoot. Deer out to 380 odd and gongs out till I run out of dial 165 NBT doing 2650 so plenty of grunt out to 500

Reason I wanted a pig was.....well anyone ever hunted the Kaimai's