Thread: Explaining Brands

Originally Posted by Bagheera

Budget for a hundred pack of ammo. Use 50 to sight in test get trajectory and youll have 50 for hunting and checking Zero. Choose one low / medium price ammo and don't experimerit. Insufficient quantity and mixed ammo often let down new shooters on a modest budget. Your benchmark aCcuracy should be 50mm at l00m Not trying for l MoA with $1300 gear (at first).

This comment is actually very good advice. Most of the rifles mentioned so far, if not all are well capable of good accuracy. With a persons first centre fire the issue is usually with the accuracy of the person. If you put a 1moa gun in the hands of a 4MOA shooter, best they can hope for is 5MOA.....with most inside 4MOA. Practise with one sort of ammo until you get good consistency. 308 is good for this as the ammo choices are plenty and there are some budget brands that can make practise a lot easier.

The comment re practise with a 22 is also sound advice. Technique is important and a lot can be learnt and developed in the humble 22.

Originally Posted by SGR

but Im lost as to what brands better .

Is it a case of the more you spend the better the rifle ?

If you have ever been invested in another hobby you would no doubt know that there is no such thing as a blanket "better" (or "good" or "best" for that matter).

There are broadly two several desirable attributes in a rifle: accuracy and cosmetic quality.

Accuracy is a pretty simple concept. Every brand has produced accurate rifles. The trick is, which brand produce accurate rifles MORE CONSISTANTLY. This comes down to 3 things: choice of material, choice between tolerance and cost, and production method. Some brands tend to use better materials, have tighter tolerances, and/or production methods tend to produce more accurate rifles (and save money on stock or packaging, for example). Savage for example uses button rifling, this process produces more accurate rifle but at the same time causes more fouling than other methods. CZ for example tend to use very good steel and has a reputation of good craftsmanship. To get a feel of which brand is more accurate you should not ask for people's opinion in forums because everyone will tell you the gun they own is accurate. Read gun reviews with accuracy comparisons. Generally, for your price range, I would say Savage and Tikka T3 are the most accurate (on average). Trigger also plays a big part in accuracy, some brands has better designed factory trigger than others. Tikka's is quite good. Savage uses a complex dual trigger design called accu-trigger. Some other brands has followed that path in recent years.

interesting article on accuracy.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/min...ut-of-the-box/

By cosmetic quality I mean things like fit and finish, the quality and texture of wood and paint, etc. To be honest you will not find any Western European or American stars in your price range. Eastern European, South American, and Russian may have something with decent cosmetic quality, but they generally are less accurate and quality control is slightly less consistent. Most rifles with good cosmetic quality are 2000 + for bare rifle. Common people brands include Kimber, Styer, Sako, etc...

@buzzman has a suitable candidate for sale, maybe not for deer but rabbits and goats is perfect if your new to hunting

Cheers guys really appreciate all the replies , given me heaps to think about .

Sold off one of my mtb's so do have 2k to play with just set my budget around the 1300 ish mark so im still able to gear up with some more stuff.
(sleeping bag ,sleeping mat , knife, cooker and a few other things )
Dont really see the point dropping it all on a rifle if i haven't got the gear i need to get out and find them in the first place.
(Already have the basics; boots, binos ,pack and necessary clothing)

Going to try get into gun city and actually hold a few see how they feel !

cheers!

Like others have said, dont buy a package with a crap scope. Either get the bare rifle or try get a deal with a upgraded scope . No brand names, gun city scopes etc are just shit. A scope thats around 400-599 would be the min i be looking at. Vortex, Bushnell, leupold, Burris, Weaver all very good and maybe a redfield as bottom line. Certain models of some rifles are crap and should be avoided. Savage axis and Remington 770 are two that come to mind. Howa are good value, T3 very good and Remington 700 are fine as well as is a few other brands.

https://www.guncity.com/howa-m1500-s...calibre-317388

https://www.guncity.com/7mm-08-savag...nthetic-321640

https://www.guncity.com/savage-axis-...calibre-238546

paired with

https://www.guncity.com/leupold-vx-1...m-matte-108789

Or this combo
http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/Centerfire.html#howa

seems to be the best value for money i can find new so far

Have a look at the Ruger American, they get very good reviews especially accuracy wise, been thinking of one in 30 06 one day ,maybe. Tikka T3's are pretty good also have two and both get the job do just fine. They may not be tack drivers but for hunting they are hard to beat unless you spend more money.

Originally Posted by SGR

https://www.guncity.com/howa-m1500-s...calibre-317388

https://www.guncity.com/7mm-08-savag...nthetic-321640

https://www.guncity.com/savage-axis-...calibre-238546

paired with

https://www.guncity.com/leupold-vx-1...m-matte-108789

seems to be the best value for money i can find new so far

Don't go for a Savage Axis. Honestly, keep an eye open on here and trademe for a good deal on a second hand rifle of better quality. Don't be in too much of a hurry. If you were a leftie I'd point you at a Savage with a fairly good scope on trademe. If you want to try out a couple of my rifles at the range flick me a PM.

Originally Posted by SGR

Cheers guys really appreciate all the replies , given me heaps to think about .

Sold off one of my mtb's so do have 2k to play with just set my budget around the 1300 ish mark so im still able to gear up with some more stuff.
(sleeping bag ,sleeping mat , knife, cooker and a few other things )
Dont really see the point dropping it all on a rifle if i haven't got the gear i need to get out and find them in the first place.
(Already have the basics; boots, binos ,pack and necessary clothing)

Going to try get into gun city and actually hold a few see how they feel !

cheers!

I'm not trying to start a shit fight here but GC is a great place to have a look at different rifles as they have such a huge range, but.. I wouldn't listen for a second to the absolute dribble that comes out of the mouths of any of the staff in there.... they use pushy tactics and will sing the praises of anything if they think they can get a sale out of it, I have heard some really shocking and bullshit advice handed out in there to new shooters.

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

I'm not trying to start a shit fight here but GC is a great place to have a look at different rifles as they have such a huge range, but.. I wouldn't listen for a second to the absolute dribble that comes out of the mouths of any of the staff in there.... they use pushy tactics and will sing the praises of anything if they think they can get a sale out of it, I have heard some really shocking and bullshit advice handed out in there to new shooters.

Yea im definitely on the same page cheers for the heads up

Originally Posted by SGR

https://www.guncity.com/howa-m1500-s...calibre-317388

https://www.guncity.com/7mm-08-savag...nthetic-321640

https://www.guncity.com/savage-axis-...calibre-238546

paired with

https://www.guncity.com/leupold-vx-1...m-matte-108789

Or this combo
Centerfire Rifles - Hunting and Outdoor Supplies

seems to be the best value for money i can find new so far

Can you still get the Savage trophy hunter + weaver scope packages for $950? That deal is the best value around IMO.

Some good advice posted on this thread already so nothing to add really!

In defence for the axis. I got one in 223 as I was after something cheaper to run than 270 on wallabys. It does the job well and is accurate. But....the stock is flimsy, and I can see it will break through the pistol grip if given a decent hit. You could upgrade the stock, but you may as well've spent that extra on the next level up and had something good in the first place.
Reason I got it was I was going out for a weekend shoot and there was nothing else around on the day and it was ready to shoot. I view it as a disposable rifle. I wouldn't get another for the above reasons.
If Buzzman had advertised his one in a couple of months time, I would've bought it straight away

You are in CHCH so try Shooters supplies in Hornby (near the BK on waterloo road) and Gunworks in Yaldhurst. Both are very good to deal with. Honest and reliable.

Ultimutsus analysis into accuracy and cosmetics is good.

Many people have recommended "feel" which is very important. Specially does your finger reach the trigger and does the palmswell fit your hand ? No swell can be better than bad swell. Good fit and feel costs the manufacturer nothing.

The other is "features" which increase useability but are often expensive and you can do wihout on a budget . Examples are the three lug 60 deg bolt throw, box mag, 5 shots,metal bolt shroud etc that make the sako twice the price of the tikka. On scopes these include dial turrets, ballistic reticles, >9x, >40mm obj and rainguard all offering real but diminishing returns for a lot more cost. Sort of supersizing your spend.

You have generated a fair amount of interest / advice.
Mine is this, there are two basic trains of thought. Learn from a cheapy or cry once buy once.
I advocate learn from a cheapie and know when to fold 'em and know when to hold 'em.
Your first rifle is always going to be something to remember, for all sorts of reasons. What a lot of the guys are talking about has only come with THEIR experience, some things you need to experience yourself and thats part of the learning curve.
Unless you intend going Wapiti hunting alot, then a milder caliber is going to teach you a fair bit.
As a first rifle I would suggest something like a 7 mm 08