Thread: Field modifying service weapons

Originally Posted by bunji

Do l have to sign up ,pay for membership or anything ?

No nothing like that, the podcast is free on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or any of those type apps

"You are lucky to know such incredible men, I’d love to know more about how you came to meet them, you mentioned guiding?"
@hamish9701 .Yes we are very lucky to have got to know & become friends with a number of interesting characters from our work/travels around the world over the years .

I am very lucky in that my long suffering wife loves Hunting, Fishing,Diving,Boats & exploring remote regions as much as l do.Back in the late 90's we sold the farm here & decided to do something we had both wanted to do for a while ,combining things we lover doing recreation-ally with a business .We partnered up with a couple we knew from Sky Diving ,Motorbikes & Scuba Diving who operated a "Adventure" Outfitting business in remote areas of PNG & the Top End of Oz ie Diving ,Trekking/Exploring,Rock climbing/Abseiling ,Hunting & Fishing .I looked more after the Hunting/Fishing side.

A large part of the clientele they had built up over the years were Veterans (Partner was a Ex Norwegian Navy & PMC Clearance Diver ),as we dived & operated in areas loaded with WW2 wrecks & artifacts & had access to areas off limits to the general public ,(like a WW2, US Secret Bomber Base,that was littered with equipment & wrecks). The third client l took up in PNG, was the Colonel who outfitted around the world, who had a group of Pacific campaign Vets with him,we got on well from the start ,at the end of that trip he booked me to take him & his son Hunting/fishing/Diving in Arnhem Land on a private trip.After 9/11 Americans were hesitant to travel to most destinations ,we were deemed as being in a "safe"area & business 'boomed' ,the Colonel did a lot of trips with us that & then over the years it grew to where we did trips all over the world & hunted Africa a number of times .

The Colonel is a hugely successful businessman & he operated among others a Lodge set up to cater solely for Veterans & their families, our friendship grew & he asked me to join him as a manager for part of the year, which l did for a number of years & through socializing with the Colonel & his family with the guys he served /worked with (a lot were the original leadership for contractors operating in the ME) ,plus the clientele l got to be friends & guide for many of their trips around the world .

A lot of people can not handle being around Combat Veterans, as they can be pretty intense & "Alpha" for want of a better description, but our Kiwi, Bushy Bastard up bringing & no BS nature ,plus in my case the fact l have been around bikers through the family all my life, meant l had no problems dealing/socializing & becoming close friends with many.

A lot of people do not realize how well respected & valued Kiwis are around the world, for being "real",no BS in nature& especially Farm raised Kiwi's are valued for the large range of "jack of all trades ,master of none"skill set & can do attitude.IMO part of the reason Kiwi's are valued over dopey Aussies so much in their own mine industry

@hamish971 I have been talking to the Colonel & others ,they have just been approved to do the following as a small "official "part of Honoring Capt Ron,first time it has ever been allowed -


The UDT-SEAL association are going to perform a ‘swim out’ ceremony in Ft Pierce, Florida from the the UDT-SEAL museum, where the first Underwater Demolition Teams Frogmen (UDT)were trained & the Navy SEAL Teams grew from . Navy SEAL legend Fred Fritsch is going to swim out from the beach and cast Capt Ron’s ashes under full military honors.

It is amazing how many hoops they have to jump through even over 50 years later due to the secret missions Capt Ron completed on the Nuclear Submarines & the early "Red Cell" type of security missions .



@hamish971 I have a lot of rare photos & Video etc from the battle fields in Nam & "The Spike Teams" ,"Over The Fence"operations from the early days of The Phoenix Program etc ,etc showing the wide variety of field modified weaponry they used,everything from ,but will not post anything l am not given the OK for it & after l work out how to hide faces etc ,in those pictures that need it,also the real story of a lot of the Op's right up till fairly recent that the public is either fed straight BS or never hear of & a lot that is not IMO to be proud of particularly among the new breed Celebri-seals.who have been making headlines of late .If they are of interest let us know & l will see what l can do .

I always found it interesting how back in the early days & right up to recent conflicts ,weaponry & equipment is shared among the various elite Special Forces without REMF interfering,makes you wonder what is being flown/shipped at any time. For instance the SEALs were given by the SAS (all very unofficially) some of the Original pommy versions of the Hush Puppy ,suppressed 9mm pistols for assassination & ambush Op's & one Capt Ron used had been used to kill a very high ranking SS, Nazi in.

He told how although they were big & unwieldy,after they made some modifications to the suppressor system , (all while on these floating barge "Heli port / airports" they used in Nam as bases, as they were so far away from any real support bases).They operated almost entirely at night, start of OP's landing at river bank start point at 10Pm pick up at 4AM, all going well ,transported out by Brown Water Navy in low profile ,heavily armed,specially modified, jet boats & if in heavy contact the Seawolves would be scrambled for dust off etc .They would test these original Hush Puppy & later versions before going out on missions by walking up to their posted sentries or small groups talking in the inky blackness & fire them behind their backs into the water & after these modifications they were never detected, even at those close quarters .

Once again Capt Ron was involved in Suppressed weapons that suited the SEALs more & the birth of the Mk 22 Hushpuppy based off the Smith and Wesson M39, a 9mm Semi Auto handgun, the SEALs used along side & with specially developed ammunition, as part of the program for their modified what they nicknamed the "Swedish K", the 9mm Carl Gustav M/45 submachine gun.They even modified the MK22 pistol grip/magwell to use a 13-round double-stack Browning HP magazine to increase firepower as well as a detachable stock & of course threading the barrel & increasing sight height to allow for the suppressor.

MK22

https://i.imgur.com/l4Ud57N.jpg

SEALs with the unsung hero locals,who working as Combat Interpreters,point man,they not only gained important intelligence but also saved the SEAL teams many times, as operating so far behind enemy lines warning of enemy movements near by or the SEALs being hunted was extremely important .

In any "official"posed pic like this they are rarely shown carrying the SEAL modified AK's they would use as point man,so if they walked into a ambush or "bumped" NVC on a narrow jungle path , they could gain critical seconds of confusion of the NVC to break/initiate contact.These locals while on point were fearless & had a type of unusual "formal "greeting they would shout out if they bumped the enemy ,that the SEALs immediately knew they were in for a hard time ie so instead of just saying Oh Hello ,they would say something like, Greetings kind sir.


https://i.imgur.com/vvVP4jA.jpg


Posed pic

https://i.imgur.com/UXh0XI3.jpg

Op combined forces

https://imgur.com/e6wM3px

Tiger Stripe & loaded for Bear

https://i.imgur.com/bde1EQ9.jpeg

Hope info/pic's were of interest ,let me know if you want me to dig up info on the Stoner 63 LMG or if you have any other questions

Originally Posted by bunji

@hamish971 I have been talking to the Colonel & others ,they have just been approved to do the following as a small "official "part of Honoring Capt Ron,first time it has ever been allowed -


On November 6th, the UDT-SEAL association are going to perform a ‘swim out’ ceremony in Ft Pierce, Florida from the the UDT-SEAL museum, where the first Underwater Demolition Teams Frogmen (UDT)were trained & the Navy SEAL Teams grew from . Navy SEAL legend Fred Fritsch is going to swim out from the beach and cast Capt Ron’s ashes under full military honors.

It is amazing how many hoops they have to jump through even over 50 years later due to the secret missions Capt Ron completed on the oNuclear Submarines & the early "Red Cell" type of security missions .
@hamish971 I have a lot of rare photos & Video etc from the battle fields in Nam & "The Spike Teams" ,"Over The Fence"operations from the early days of The Phoenix Program etc ,etc showing the wide variety of field modified weaponry they used,everything from ,but will not post anything l am not given the OK for it & after l work out how to hide faces etc ,in those pictures that need it .

I always found it interesting how back in the early days right up to recent conflicts weaponry & equipment is shared among the various elite Special Forces , the SEALs were given by the SAS (all very unofficially) some of the Original pommy versions of the Hush Puppy ,suppressed 9mm pistols for assassination & ambush Op's & one Capt Ron used had been used to kill a very high ranking SS, Nazi in.

He told how although they were big & unwieldy,after they made some modifications to the suppressor (all while on these floating barge "Heli port / airports" they used in Nam as bases, as they were so far away from any real support bases).They operated almost entirely at night, start of OP's at 10Pm pick up at 4AM, all going well ,transported out by Brown Water Navy in low profile ,heavily armed,specially modified, jet boats & if in heavy contact the Seawolves would be scrambled for dust off etc .They would test these original Hush Puppy before going out on missions by walking up to their posted sentries or small groups talking in the inky blackness & fire them behind their backs into the water & after these modifications they were never detected even at those close quarters . Once again Capt Ron was involved in Suppressed weapons that suited the SEALs more & the birth of the Mk 22 Hushpuppy based off theSmith and Wesson M39, a 9mm Semi Auto handgun, the SEALs used along side & with specially developed ammunition, as part of the program for their modified what they nicknamed the "Swedish K", the 9mm Carl Gustav M/45 submachine gun.They even modified the MK22 pistol grip/magwell to use a 13-round double-stack Browning HP magazine to increase firepower as well as a detachable stock & of course threading the barrel & increasing sight height to allow for the suppressor.

MK22

https://i.imgur.com/l4Ud57N.jpg

SEALs with the unsung hero locals,who working as Combat Interpreters, not only gained important intelligence but also saved the SEAL teams many times, as operating so far behind enemy lines warning of enemy movements near by or the SEALs being hunted was extremely important .In any "official"posed pic like this they are rarely shown carrying the SEAL modified AK's they would use as point man,so if they walked into a ambush or "bumped" NVC they could gain critical seconds of confusion of the NVC to break contact.These locals while on point were fearless & had a type of unusual "formal "greeting they would shout out if they bumped the enemy ,that the SEALs immediately knew they were in for a hard time ie so instead of just saying Oh Hello ,they would say something like greetings kind sir.


https://i.imgur.com/vvVP4jA.jpg


Posed pic

https://i.imgur.com/UXh0XI3.jpg

Op combined forces

https://imgur.com/e6wM3px

Tiger Stripe loaded for Bear

https://i.imgur.com/bde1EQ9.jpeg

Hope info/pic's were of interest ,let me know if you want me to dig up info on the Stoner 63 LMG or if you have any other questions

Great photos and info thanks mate. I have heard of ‘silent’ pistols being used and shared between countries from WW2 all the way till now but I’ve never run into those models, thanks. I know members of SOG carried some kind of suppressed .22 pistol to deal with dogs ect as well.

That’s really interesting about the point man having an AK and alerting the team. It seems indigenous team members were invaluable to special operations teams in Vietnam for many reasons.

I’ve spotted that one of my favourite YouTube channels Forgotten Weapons has a lengthy video on the Stoner 63. I’m excited to watch it tonight but any info on how CPT Yeaw contributed to the development specifically would be super interesting if you knew anything further.

Hamish

How about the Browning Stinger.
Designed, built and used by a few US Marines on Iwo Jima in WW2?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygec...rgottenWeapons

"I know members of SOG carried some kind of suppressed .22 pistol to deal with dogs etc as well."

@hamish9701 Around a Hunting Camp fire the Colonel told how the early SEALs & MACV-SOG "Spike Teams " used 22 rifles they had modded by accurising,shortening the barrels & suppressing & scoped with a 2X with a German style post & rail reticle .

They used these to Snatch VC "Tax Collectors" who were valued for gathering intelligence to a very high level & sometimes used as double agents .These scumbags were always protected & escorted by well trained NVC ,so as the Colonel explained they would set up a Snatch'em ambush site along a heavy jungle cover ,narrow trail section ,the Tax Collector would normally be placed near the middle of a column of usually 6-8 NVC escorting him on his tax collecting rounds .

The SEALs would mate 4-6 Claymore mines rigged at hip height in the jungle cover, spaced closely together ,they then waited for the column of NVC to enter the kill zone ,the 22 was used by placing the post reticle on the Tax Collectors leg bone, below the knee & shooting him in the knee cap .With no noise it looked like he had fallen after twisting his knee & as he hit the ground the waist high Claymores were set off wiping out the NVC. The NVC guards would be annihilated, with as described by those who used the tactic, the Tax collector looked like a bucket of spaghetti had been dumped on him, he was then safely snatched up & was usually that shocked by being covered in bits of his former guards they would be scared silent ,until they loaded him on a Seawolf chopper to take back to the CIA guys for interrogation. They used what they called the Snatch'em Ambush for years & it was copied by other SF groups around the world.

They always said pigs & Roosters were the worst sentry animals they had to deal with ,as the dogs were always starving & poorly treated, a bit of food thrown to them would see them soon turn sides & wag their tails as they creeped past them , they always said they would have been able to supply a fast food chain with the amount of them they used the Hush Puppy's on .

If you can ,would you post a link to that show on the Stoner 63 as l have never seen a show featuring them ,l do not get on the computer much apart from on sourcing gear for the farm,here & catching up with our girls who live overseas.Thanks

Ive heard tell of a belt fed 12ga that was used on conveys of vehicles it sprayed roadside and stripped any vege cover darn quickly....there is video been around for 5-6 years now of full auto 12ga made for military purpose and the demo of it is mind blowing.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ive heard tell of a belt fed 12ga that was used on conveys of vehicles it sprayed roadside and stripped any vege cover darn quickly....there is video been around for 5-6 years now of full auto 12ga made for military purpose and the demo of it is mind blowing.

I’m sure there is some mighty funky 12GA contraptions for sure, I wonder how much SF used shotguns during the Vietnam war.. @bunji any stories about them?

Originally Posted by bunji

"I know members of SOG carried some kind of suppressed .22 pistol to deal with dogs etc as well."

@hamish9701 Around a Hunting Camp fire the Colonel told how the early SEALs & MACV-SOG "Spike Teams " used 22 rifles they had modded by accurising,shortening the barrels & suppressing & scoped with a 2X with a German style post & rail reticle .

They used these to Snatch VC "Tax Collectors" who were valued for gathering intelligence to a very high level & sometimes used as double agents .These scumbags were always protected & escorted by well trained NVC ,so as the Colonel explained they would set up a Snatch'em ambush site along a heavy jungle cover ,narrow trail section ,the Tax Collector would normally be placed near the middle of a column of usually 6-8 NVC escorting him on his tax collecting rounds .

The SEALs would mate 4-6 Claymore mines rigged at hip height in the jungle cover, spaced closely together ,they then waited for the column of NVC to enter the kill zone ,the 22 was used by placing the post reticle on the Tax Collectors leg bone, below the knee & shooting him in the knee cap .With no noise it looked like he had fallen after twisting his knee & as he hit the ground the waist high Claymores were set off wiping out the NVC. The NVC guards would be annihilated, with as described by those who used the tactic, the Tax collector looked like a bucket of spaghetti had been dumped on him, he was then safely snatched up & was usually that shocked by being covered in bits of his former guards they would be scared silent ,until they loaded him on a Seawolf chopper to take back to the CIA guys for interrogation. They used what they called the Snatch'em Ambush for years & it was copied by other SF groups around the world.

They always said pigs & Roosters were the worst sentry animals they had to deal with ,as the dogs were always starving & poorly treated, a bit of food thrown to them would see them soon turn sides & wag their tails as they creeped past them , they always said they would have been able to supply a fast food chain with the amount of them they used the Hush Puppy's on .

If you can ,would you post a link to that show on the Stoner 63 as l have never seen a show featuring them ,l do not get on the computer much apart from on sourcing gear for the farm,here & catching up with our girls who live overseas.Thanks

Yeah that would do the trick alright, I’ve heard a variation of that where instead of using the .22 they placed a c4 charge just far enough away to stun but not kill the prisoner, the rest would be taken care of my the claymores same as the .22 setup. The bloke who tested it placed various sized charges close to himself till he found what worked, would be one hell of a headache after that!

https://youtu.be/vCNw9Z2Q3T0

https://youtu.be/8LVWNGRjD0g

Here’s two videos, one with background on the system and the other shooting the various types, super cool.

there must be some interesting 12ga weapons around...mate HAD a metal stocked rem 1100 at one stage and sold it...for the 10-30 yard taked about earlier....deadly.

@hamish9701 Thanks l had never even heard of him ,he has a video on the Swedish K to which the SEALs rated highly & are great fun to shoot, as like a favorite of mine the Grease Gun ,the Swede K has a easily controllable rate of fire & are sweet to shoot.
@Micky Duck l have shot a Select Fire Auto Remington shotgun, one of the Nam SEALs had in his collection, they are what the 1100 was loosely based off later on .The version the guys used were called the Remington 7188 MK1 & they prefeered them over even the popular bottom ejecting Ithaca, the biggest problem was the shells were based off standard sporting cases & they failed under the hard use initially.The SEALs had the Special Forces Weapons Testing Centers design special rounds with 00 Buck & what they preferred to use on bunkers/mini tunnels hidden under Hooch's was the later XM257 that was a high brass No 4 buck loading , that killed on both ends.

The REMF's still manged to cluster fuck the new development by loading them into bright red duck hunting cases.just what you want when you are fighting that close you have to paint your face green & that with the extra weight /limited ability to carry enough 12G ammo lead to the being passed over by the SEALs. They also tried a 25 flechettes shell ,but the nail as far as wide spread use by the SEALs was already done. The later full Auto shot gun you may be thinking about is the drum fed AA12.


https://i.imgur.com/gWgK3vP.jpg

In the war museum in Canberra you will see Vietnam era SLRs with the barrels shortened and the flash hider sitting just below the gas plug.

The heavy barrel SLR designed for full auto bursts is the L1A2.

The L1A1 would go full auto by putting a ring pull shim under the trigger dear, but that would nullify semi auto function. Standard SLRs used on full auto used to split the stocks.

From the Osprey MACV SOG book.

"There were distinct advantages to using AKs; they reinforced the impression that an RT seen from a distance was NVA/VC, and ammunition and magazines taken from enemy dead could be used. In a chance encounter with the enemy, the sound of AK shots would not necessarily cause a reaction among other enemy in the area. Additionally, the AK was a very effective and reliable weapon, with good penetration through foliage.

Another Soviet-designed weapon used by some RTs was the RPD light machine gun. This 14.5lb bipod-mounted weapon was one of the lightest machine guns in use. It fired the same ammunition as the AK and used a 100- round belt in a drum magazine. Some had the barrel cut back to the gas tube and the bipod removed, reducing its 40.8in. length by about 8in. and knocking off a few pounds of weight. The shortened RPD provided an RT with considerable firepower while weighing about 11lb less than an M60 machine gun."







Rhodesian SAS with slightly modified RPDs.







John Fletcher of the Selous Scouts with one of armourer Phil Morgan's famous chopped RPDs.

Probably the most successful action out of that shitty episode in history

@hamish9701 That was interesting watch & it was good to see the Modifications Capt Ron fought for being mentioned & then him realizing how much difference they made.Looks like he loved shooting the Stoner as much as l did & you can see what l meant about the recoil control & balance making it the best LMG l have ever fired.

Capt Ron always said getting the magazines redesigned so they centrally balanced the Stoner, saved lives because even wounded the SEALs could stay in the fight, being able to even use it one handed,it was something he was proud of, because he had to fight both the REMF's & Stoners team at first to fet it done.

The short fluted barreled 63A? with the improved gas tube was in his opinion the perfect LMG for their needs & you can see in the group pics many chose it for its light weight & Accurate fire power .The Stoner would keep on working even when caked in mangrove mud ,all they would do is crank the gas port open with a bullet .It was not unusual for the majority of a patrol to carry a Stoner as it was as accurate as a rifle with the firepower of a heavy MG.

That guy in the video made a mistake though ,the 150 Rnd Drum mags were preferred & they made their own carriers for them ,each SEAL carried 3 & a hundred round belt ,what they would do is have the Drum with the complete ammo tray connected & when time for a reload they simply pushed the detente pins & snapped the complete unit on.They showed me pics of the drum mas that had bullet & shrapnel damage that saved the wearer.even when resupplied with belts when they could they reloaded the Drums with them .

Capt Ron was also responsible for the "Tupperware "box mags ,again designed to keep the gun properly balanced & multi purpose ,but also small & strong enough to be loaded into the large 7-62 tin ammo cases & dropped from height by the Seawolves choppers & even in fire fights all they had to do on resupply was open the ammo can & snap on .

While Capt Ron was Platoon Commander of SEAL Team 2 (ST2) ,with his weapons experience , the military came up with a typical REMF idea. ST2 would be tasked with trying to prove /disapprove the reliability problems the Army etc were having with new AR15 in combat conditions,so in other words the Brass wanted to put their lives on the line taking a problematic rifle into extreme combat .So what they would do is carry their chosen weapons into combat & after pick up by the Brown Water Navy they would dunk muddy water,buckets of salty mangrove mud etc on the AR's while they used up unused ammo in the boats on the trip back to base .They even buried them in mangrove mud for a week & after a field strip clean had the good to go .So in the posed "official" pics you see them with AR's in much better condition than the guns they were actually using.

Capt Ron was a hard task master & with his weapons expertise & from the UDT background of having weapons reliable enough to function after exiting Submarines at depth , made sure all his guys kept their weapons in proper working order & what they found with proper cleaning the Ar's were as reliable as any other gun they had & they ended talking them on a lot of missions later,but the CAR-15 was stilled the preferred option for their needs .

Capt Ron also showed the Special Weapons guys & Stoner team the proper care of the Stoner in the field & how they had to run wet,which lead to them being given bigger plastic disposable satchels of lube,that were torn open with your teeth & designed for one handed use.These were designed to fit in the top of those "Tupperware" 150 Rnd magazines so even in remote air supply drops the guys had everything they needed in one hit ,again following Capt Rons preferred multi use systems .

Looking forward to seeing what that guy shows of the Swedish K,l had never even heard of them before meeting the guys & they are a great gun to shoot .