Thread: First AR reccomendations

Originally Posted by Macca

All online reviews aside, there seems to be alot more hate for the pistons than I thought coming from experienced shooters.

Because it is viewed as un-American to not have your AR looking like an AR. Hence the Forward assist on the HK, doesn't need it but the Americans got upset that it didn't look like an AR so they had to add it.

Yes a clean and well maintained DI will work. But if not 4-5 stoppages a mag is acceptable to some I guess.

The baddies like their pistons and they are in far greater use than DI.

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

Because it is viewed as un-American to not have your AR looking like an AR. Hence the Forward assist on the HK, doesn't need it but the Americans got upset that it didn't look like an AR so they had to add it.

Yes a clean and well maintained DI will work. But if not 4-5 stoppages a mag is acceptable to some I guess.

The baddies like their pistons and they are in far greater use than DI.

The forward assist is there because the AR has a non reciprocating charging handle. The gas system is irrelevant to its existence. The HK needs it just as much as a DI.

All ARs are already piston operated. 'Piston' ARs just relocate the piston and replace the gas tube with op-rods and springs.

The gas expands inside the carrier pushing the bolt/piston forward and the carrier/cylinder back. Excess gas is vented out the ejection port via vents in the carrier. The only extra fouling (over an external piston AR) is the small amount of gas that leaks from these relatively sealed components into the receiver.

All autos will foul until friction robs the bolt of too much kinetic energy and causes short stroking or failures to go into battery. A piston gun is no different

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

Because it is viewed as un-American to not have your AR looking like an AR. Hence the Forward assist on the HK, doesn't need it but the Americans got upset that it didn't look like an AR so they had to add it.

Yes a clean and well maintained DI will work. But if not 4-5 stoppages a mag is acceptable to some I guess.

The baddies like their pistons and they are in far greater use than DI.

Citation?

I couldnt count the number of times i have hunted with an open bolt and tried closing the action quietly when i have needed to shoot. Without a foward assist i would have been screwed. Its easier to hunt locked and loaded anyway.

Originally Posted by Towely

I couldnt count the number of times i have hunted with an open bolt and tried closing the action quietly when i have needed to shoot. Without a foward assist i would have been screwed. Its easier to hunt locked and loaded anyway.

I have done this with a Gevarm .22, pull the trigger and the round impacts the target before the sound....

Trying to close the action quietly on an AR is a recipe for a misfeed and frustration, just carry it condition 1, watch where you point your muzzle and keep your finger off the trigger.

Originally Posted by Beavis

Citation?

Annoyingly no longer available, and more annoyingly it seems the article I 'quoted' is not accurate.

DI has however proven to be less reliable, however the open source articles I can find are rubbish - M4 may get tougher barrel, better mags | Army Times | armytimes.com

I know what I would prefer, and am happy at that.

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

I have done this with a Gevarm .22, pull the trigger and the round impacts the target before the sound....

you cant compare an open bolt design with an ar15 for operation
gevarm rifles are a completely different kettle of fish

The Forward Assist is there because the US Army decided it should be there.The reason being to force the bolt closed because of a dirty chamber/rifle and / or fowled ammunition (dirty or corroded).The Designer /Airforce and others did not want it because it added nothing to the rifle except cost, but the Army won as they are the biggest user.
A piston Rifle is different as the gas is vented outside of the action not inside, although I would say the Delayed roller blow back system is the exception to the rule.As to the reliability of a piston system ,you canot denign the use of it in just about every Machinegun there is.

Until game animals, tin cans or paper targets start returning fire I'm OK with DI.

Quite right to ,but when that tin can does shoot back I think I will rember tthat I have something better to do .
My days of being a bullet catcher are well over

Originally Posted by Tankd

The reason being to force the bolt closed because of a dirty chamber/rifle and / or fowled ammunition (dirty or corroded).

I don't think any amount of forward assist is going to help if the ammunition is "fowled".

Originally Posted by Digit

Until game animals, tin cans or paper targets start returning fire I'm OK with DI.

That kinda sounds like you're saying a piston will be more reliable? or am I reading this wrong?

Originally Posted by Toby

That kinda sounds like you're saying a piston will be more reliable? or am I reading this wrong?

Rephrased...
Even if game animals, tin cans or paper targets returned fire I'm perfectly OK with DI.

An Hk416 may be marginally more reliable if poorly maintained and fired for thousands of rounds fully-automatic in a desert environment without lubrication. I don't think that's going to come up and the downsides don't make that hilarious edge case advantage worth it.