Thread: First rifle advice

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Just stick to your plan. Get a 270. 95% of hunters in NZ are using suppresors now anyhow so the "oh but they kick hard" argument is a mute point, and most the people who say they'll kick the shit out of you got told that by their uncles cousins best mates neighbor Ricky and they let it get to their head when/if they ever did fire one, or they think you have to have a rifle with some badass acronym name and head to toe kuiu gear to shoot a deer
Heaps of factory ammo, components etc, easy to reload for, you wont end up with no ammo or projectile availability in cycles like happens with the 6.5 and 7mm calibers in cycles over the past few years, shit tonnes of info out there on
possible loads etc and they just work. Can load 110s and smack over goats or long range hares on the cheap or stoke up 150s or 145s and go chase bull tahr round the alps.

Recoil on the 270 is about the same as 308, 30/06 et al. Where muzzle energy is similar recoil is the same. I think the reason the 270 got the reputation for big recoil is that the earlier loads tended to make a louder BANG with a bit more burn outside of the barrel. Subconciously the brain interprets Bigger Bang = bigger recoil....which is part of the reason suppressors seem to tame more recoil.

I would definitely encourage you to go second hand. There are some good rifles going for real bargains at the moment. Seem to be more rifles than buyers around.

Go to the gun shop, start at one end of the rifle rack and whichever one comes up to your shoulder/sight line most naturally buy it. They all come in the popular calibres but for NZ conditions the 308 is the one calibre that does everything if one rifle to do it all is your option mainly due to vast range of bullet weights available from 125gr all the way to 220gr and it's going to do it all out of a 19" barrel but hey it's all about the fun factor so whatever rocks your boat. Good luck on your journey.

Originally Posted by timattalon

Recoil on the 270 is about the same as 308, 30/06 et al. Where muzzle energy is similar recoil is the same. I think the reason the 270 got the reputation for big recoil is that the earlier loads tended to make a louder BANG with a bit more burn outside of the barrel. Subconciously the brain interprets Bigger Bang = bigger recoil....which is part of the reason suppressors seem to tame more recoil.

Powder charge also makes a significant contribution to recoil, more per grain than the projectile. The .270 uses powder charges up to 60 grains or more compared to less than 50 grains in the 7mm-08 so recoil and blast will be greater.
GPM.

I'd try buy something used, there are a tonne of rifles out there with barely 100 rounds through them.
You can go to gun stores and look at all the different rifles, but if you can find something that's already threaded with a suppressor and has a decent scope then you'll save a bunch of money.

If you find a package deal in a store make sure it comes with decent branded gear, there a bunch of "homebrand" scopes and rings out there that are basically rubbish.
You can usually find a cheap Burris Fullfield 2 (or similar) easy enough on Trademe, or on the forum here.

If you do buy a rifle package either from a store or Trademe, don't assume it'll be set up correctly. There should be plenty of videos on YouTube about mounting a scope properly and getting the eye relief set properly.
Also checking the rings are installed correctly, ring screws not stripped, etc.

Something like this, would be a great starting point.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...ing/5089198021

I wouldn't get hung up on cartridges, anything in the 243/7mm08/6.5 Creedmoor/6.5x55/270/308/30-06 range will be more than adequate.
So long as you can buy ammo for it then it'll be fine. I'd go for something as low recoil as possible. Low recoil plus a suppressor will be the best way to not develop a flinch, which basically every new gun owner does.

many specials are fitted with scopes they cant sell - I see all to often a special and look thru the scope and its one of those horrible bloody things with a multitude of little bars bloody awfull try and get a bead on a pig or deer right on changes of light and you just cant discern the bloody cross hair - nice big Posts coming into a small final cross hair called plex or euro 4 a - but as many have said dont turn your nose at second hand- a lot of bargains out there as second hand hard to sell at moment - the earlier Tikka models and early Remingtons -Rugers Winchesters many shoot way better than you can and lots of options

Howa all day long.and when finances allow,drop it in wooden stock.love mine.

One thing in your favour if you buy secondhand is that for no good reason that I can ascertain, 270 is slightly out of fashion

Great cartridge but marketing bollocks has deemed other things newer and shinier are more desireable

Consequently on the secondhand racks there are some good 270s that turn up from the normal inevitable churn of death, retirement, emigration, WHY

The best tools are the quality ones you can buy from some old bugger who is going in to a rest home..

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Powder charge also makes a significant contribution to recoil, more per grain than the projectile. The .270 uses powder charges up to 60 grains or more compared to less than 50 grains in the 7mm-08 so recoil and blast will be greater.
GPM.

Definitely. I would almost go as far as saying it make most of the difference between the various similar calibres. The math is actually pretty simple- the muzzle energy will exactly match the recoil energy. The 270 and 30/06 case is a little larger than the 308 case so can handle a bit more powder.....but most factory loads will be fairly close - or close enough that up to 300m, most animals or shooters wont really notice much difference...

Some good caliber suggestions above - all will do the job. I'll add some thoughts...

I know this area you're going to shoot in very well. Spent first decades of my shooting career living in, and for most part hunting in, the Waikato. Also went to Waikato Uni and belonged to shooting club there back in the day. 270 will be good but I'd recommend a 308 as better for you. They are both hard hitters and will drop anything to your 300 max range - but alot of your shots will be less than 100m in the bush terrain. 308 has edge because of constant availability of a good range of ammos at good prices. This is because it has been a world round - ie civil and military use around the globe - like 223. Its other advantage is you can chop it to 18" and 16" and it will still (rifle specific) retain excellent accuracy and stopping power. 270 does not handle chops as well. The advantage of shorter barrels is very clear for north. You may hunt/stalk through alot of dense Waikato bush and it is a BIG advantage to keep your rifle short to minimise catching long barrel/suppressor on over head vegetation. Inches matter - and we always liked to keep our firearms as short as possible.

My suggestion - I'd pick up a secondhand 308, cut it to 16 or 18" maximum, then fit a shorter fat type overbarrel suppressor. This will make it very easy to handle through the bush, but still hit like a Mack truck esp with good 180 grain softnose. This is/has been a common setup up there and examples will pop up on trademe etc. Rifle could be from a number of makes - new and older. Howa offer very good value, as will older Winnies/Remmies etc as someone mentions above.

Hope this helps - happy hunting. PS say hello to the old Uni for me .. Mudz

Cheers Mudz, will do ��

I grew up shooting in the Waikato. I used a 30/06 one mate used a 270 the other used a 308. We all killed lots of animals. No real difference between any of them. But this was the late ‘80’s early ‘90’s so no suppressors, all scopes were 3-9x and barrels were 22-24” and the stocks were wood.