Thread: Gun City Japanese Arisaka type 38s

Hey guys, sorry for the delay, I haven't been on in a while!

I dont know a huge amount, but I do know we bought them from a movie company/armoury in Australia, who provides firearms for films. Its why a handful of them are chambered to take blanks.

I can find out a little more, but the guys are overseas at the moment, so comms are limited

Yeah man, any info on them would be cool, cheers

Hey there. We brought 1 and it's quite heavily pitted on the barrel exterior. Inside looks fine but did say at time of purchase we did want to shoot it and got told it would be fine..... reading a lot into it and starting to wonder a bit more now and the stock fell apart as soon as I released the first barrel band . Not sure what's best from here. Action looks good so try find replacement stock? Is exterior pitting a major? Rather new to this so think it's better to ask questions before charging in. Cheers

Originally Posted by Burb122

Hi mate, thanks it probably is shootable...but not worth it haha. I would say barrel was 2 out of 10. Pretty well buggered. There is not much putting inside the barrel. But the rifling looks really well smoothed off. And kind of shiny.

Just a nice old piece of history


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@Burb122

The barrels all look like that, they all look worn with no sharp rifling visible. Reason is the barrels are not land and groove. The Japanese adopted a Metford "polygonal" type of rifling like in the Lee-Metford. But there is no record of the Japanese having erosion problems with it like the British - presumably because the Japanese used a decent smokeless propellant.

I want to fire mine, hopefully it will prove of more use than just a bayonet holder! I just picked up some 6.5x50 brass from Gunworks in Christchurch (they're actually 6.7x51) along with some .256 bullets. Want to go careful and fireform brass, then flare and load with paper patched .256's, all to have lower-pressure shooting fun. Avoids sourcing dies etc. Should be pleasant and quiet to shoot with some Trail Boss, especially with that reeeeeeeally long barrel. The barleycorn and V-sight is a nice feature. Took me a while to get the palm safety working, but with a replacement bolt it now works, and the lugs fit tight now.

6.5 swedish bullets should go in them too, given they are also 6.7mm actual diameter.

Originally Posted by 40mm

I saw one (un fired) go for about $2.5k
was a minta though...

oops, the one I saw was not a GC one.

@40mm

No not likely. Just visited GC and there's at least a dozen waiting there to get TLC, in very similar light rusty condition to each other, probably not a single one with it's own armorer-fitted matching bolt.

Here's someone who has taken a special liking to the Arisaka, interesting info on the listed design priorities of Colonel Nambu, who was really the designer of the "Type 38" rifle as the Japanese called it.

Originally Posted by Cordite

@40mm

No not likely. Just visited GC and there's at least a dozen waiting there to get TLC, in very similar light rusty condition to each other, probably not a single one with it's own armorer-fitted matching bolt.

Here's someone who has taken a special liking to the Arisaka, interesting info on the listed design priorities of Colonel Nambu, who was really the designer of the "Type 38" rifle as the Japanese called it.

very interesting, il lhave to finish watching it tomorrow though. I have a type 38 bayonet in mint condition.... just need to get a rifle to go with it!

Originally Posted by 40mm

very interesting, il lhave to finish watching it tomorrow though. I have a type 38 bayonet in mint condition.... just need to get a rifle to go with it!

Good idea. I bought a motorbike to match my helmet and boots.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Good idea. I bought a motorbike to match my helmet and boots.

@gadgetman @40mm

The particular bayonet / rifle combination is quite iconic though, just think of King Rat.

First paperback edition:


Later edition, bayonet attachment apparently corrected by someone who just irked:


The Japanese got themselves a bad image, bayonetting a lot of people, possibly to save on ammo... But they did forever wipe out the racist myth of Japanese being backwards little people all with bad eyes and bucked teeth.

The video above contains some interesting facts, one is of the dust cover edge pushing dirt forwards in the side grooves, to the little cutout where the dirt would fall out. Also the extra bolt lug on the left, to save the actual locking lug from getting hammered on the bolt stop. Love the palm safety, no fiddling when the excitement/panic is on.

The calibre is as near an intermediate calibre as any WW1 era bolt action ever was chambered in. Big mistake made however in introducing a rimless .303 just before WW2. Big logistic problems in supplying both kinds of ammo to troops.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles...0m/0dm/083000c

Originally Posted by Tommy

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles...0m/0dm/083000c

soo cool!

Just been reading up on these and interesting apparently the action was almost indestructible.
I'll post the story on here tomorrow.

Originally Posted by SEdan

Hey guys, sorry for the delay, I haven't been on in a while!

I dont know a huge amount, but I do know we bought them from a movie company/armoury in Australia, who provides firearms for films. Its why a handful of them are chambered to take blanks.

I can find out a little more, but the guys are overseas at the moment, so comms are limited

@SEdan

Any interesting details emerged from your talk with the guys?

Quoted from Bolt Action Rifles 4th edition

By Frank de Haas and Dr. Wayne van Zwoll

"This report is from the May 1952 issue of The American Rifleman.

It describes a Type 38 Arisaka 6.5mm which was rechambered to accept the 30-06 cartridge. The 6.5mm barrel was NOT rebored, only the chamber was enlarged. The fellow who did the rechambering accomplished it by grinding down the pilot of a 30-06 reamer so it would enter the bore. After rechambering he test fired it. Nothing much happened so he used the rifle on a hunting trip and killed a deer with it. Because the rifle kicked so hard he took it to a reputable gunsmith who discovered what the owner had done with it and what he was shooting in it. Because the rifle was still intact after firing a number of 30-06 cartridges, the gunsmith sent the rifle to the NRA. The NRA staff then fired some more 30-06 rounds through it, and it seems incredible that neither the barrel nor the action burst, for just imagine firing .308" bullets through a .2642 groove diameter barrel! If one were to deliberately plan a touture test or blow-up test on the 6.5mm Japanese rifle one could hardly think of a better scheme, even though it is a little crazy.

That this particular rifle did not burst, certainly proves that the bolt, receiver and barrel were made of the best heat-treated steels. It also shows that the breech locking system is excellent."

He then goes on to say.

"I wonder what would have happened with the 6.5mm Arisaka rifle chambered for the 30-06 cartridge if the head of one of the cartridges had cracked our split open when fired, rather than expanded evenly. I think the results would have been different."

That that I'm suggesting you go out and test fire the rifle that you have brought from GC, but I thought you might find this of interest.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Quoted from Bolt Action Rifles 4th edition

By Frank de Haas and Dr. Wayne van Zwoll

"This report is from the May 1952 issue of The American Rifleman.

It describes a Type 38 Arisaka 6.5mm which was rechambered to accept the 30-06 cartridge. The 6.5mm barrel was NOT rebored, only the chamber was enlarged. The fellow who did the rechambering accomplished it by grinding down the pilot of a 30-06 reamer so it would enter the bore. After rechambering he test fired it. Nothing much happened so he used the rifle on a hunting trip and killed a deer with it. Because the rifle kicked so hard he took it to a reputable gunsmith who discovered what the owner had done with it and what he was shooting in it. Because the rifle was still intact after firing a number of 30-06 cartridges, the gunsmith sent the rifle to the NRA. The NRA staff then fired some more 30-06 rounds through it, and it seems incredible that neither the barrel nor the action burst, for just imagine firing .308" bullets through a .2642 groove diameter barrel! If one were to deliberately plan a touture test or blow-up test on the 6.5mm Japanese rifle one could hardly think of a better scheme, even though it is a little crazy.

That this particular rifle did not burst, certainly proves that the bolt, receiver and barrel were made of the best heat-treated steels. It also shows that the breech locking system is excellent."

He then goes on to say.

"I wonder what would have happened with the 6.5mm Arisaka rifle chambered for the 30-06 cartridge if the head of one of the cartridges had cracked our split open when fired, rather than expanded evenly. I think the results would have been different."

That that I'm suggesting you go out and test fire the rifle that you have brought from GC, but I thought you might find this of interest.

Cheers

No different, outcome, except it might have been harder to extract the split shell. The Type 38 has top vent holes in the receiver, and an ingenious way to allow gases entering the bolt around the firing pin to travel backwards only to eventually be redirected forwards by the rear cap / palm safety. It effectively has four locking lugs, two primary, two secondary. In addition to two strong locking lugs, it also has (1) port side spare locking lug (hits against the bolt stop on port side, to avoid wearing the business surface of the port locking lug) and (2) the bolt handle on the starboard side, functioning as a rear locking lug.

Some additional protection to shooters eyes from the dust cover. It would stop direct debris from the top of the bolt travelling directly back, but might let some gases travel backwards underneath it. A really big bang up front would likely lift up the front of the dust cover, but it would stay attached at the rear and thus still deflect stuff from going straight back.

The thing is over engineered. Estonia even re-bored Type 38s from 6.5mmx51SR to 7.7x56R (.303 Brit).