Thread: H & K sl8-6

Ok looks like RRA win for 223 now some advise on model, barrel length , suppressor etc I know some is taste but most has been tried easier to ask what works than try it yourself lazy? No been there spent shitloads been ripped off Oh yes

Originally Posted by RimfireNZ

They're overpriced for a DPMS/Bushmaster? You can get them for less than $2200?
Shows how much I knew. I thought bushmasters were half decent. I remember they were $5k a few years back. NEAs better than that?

DPMS/Bushmaster have crappy features and QC

Last time I saw the Remingtons they were like $3500

Either way I just wouldn't buy one

NZ prices are a bit skewed on shit too and there's less "Good" brands available here

Originally Posted by Happy

Ok looks like RRA win for 223 now some advise on model, barrel length , suppressor etc I know some is taste but most has been tried easier to ask what works than try it yourself lazy? No been there spent shitloads been ripped off Oh yes

14.5", some sort of muzzle can.


A suppressor increases gas backpressure, blows gas in your face and increases parts wear. Do Not buy 16" barrel with carbine gas, if you get 16" get midlength gas. Get an adjustable gas block if you can or a heavier buffer, and a Gasbuster charging handle

don't get something with non-free floating handguards

most factory free-floating handguards suck (are fat and heavy)

don't get something with an A2 FSB

Originally Posted by gimp

DPMS/Bushmaster have crappy features and QC

Last time I saw the Remingtons they were like $3500

Either way I just wouldn't buy one

NZ prices are a bit skewed on shit too and there's less "Good" brands available here

Can get them for $2200 from Serious Shooters at the mo. Just FYI.
Apparently the Remington distributor was wanting to stick it to GC so brought them in and sold them for cheap

Originally Posted by Happy

Ok looks like RRA win for 223 now some advise on model, barrel length , suppressor etc I know some is taste but most has been tried easier to ask what works than try it yourself lazy? No been there spent shitloads been ripped off Oh yes

You still haven't mentioned what the gun is for. This all makes a difference.
If you're wanting something for varminting you'll want a longer heavier barrel. If you're just shooting at the range for fun a shorter, sporter profile barrel is fine.

I've got 3 MAE suppressors. I probably wouldn't recommend them. They do their job well but damn they're heavy (and expensive).

Originally Posted by RimfireNZ

Can get them for $2200 from Serious Shooters at the mo. Just FYI.
Apparently the Remington distributor was wanting to stick it to GC so brought them in and sold them for cheap

there's some dude on T/me selling new Stag rifles for $1999 which are slightly better and also not covered in realmossydipshitadvantage camo

Stag.. PUKE... I think the only parts I've ever THROWN away have been Stag
The current DPMS/CMMG/Double Star/Colt/LAR lowers are heaps better than year or so ago - they used to be a little loose
To say CMMG is good but DPMS not, is ignorance - they are the same lower forging, machined in the same jig, with a different name on the side.
i've been to 'big name' mfgs in the US and seen the guys out the back knocking them together from boxes of parts - no machine tooling - just like the rest of them.. I'm not even sure any of the major machinists actually assemble complete rifles?

You can get 100 people to rank them, and you might get a trend, but more than likely it will be based off what the read on the net or their mate, and it wont add up to who ACTUALLY forges and machines them.
Same with uppers forgings- if you think that each company makes their own then you're dreaming - have a look at the forging marks on a bunch of different upper 'brands' - most will be a square or keyhole.. you can buy 2 uppers form the same company with different marks

You can get some nice fruity, non run-of-the-mill bits, however you will pay to play, and some of it is just wank factor

The BEST lower I've EVER seen/got was machined in NZ - it is PERFECT in fitment - no longer in production unfortunately.
Noveske has a good name and up there in quality, however the one I played with was the worst barrel extension/feedramp fitment I think I've ever seen, same with Bravo Company
As a complete package from Puke, OK, Good, V/Good
Stag -puke to OK
RRA - OK - some good
Colt - OK
CMMG - good
Doublestar - good
STI -good - V/good
DPMS - good
Bushmaster - ok
Windham - ok
Remington - ok
JP - V/good
NEA - OK
Noveske - V/good
Smeiser (sp?) - good
BRD - V/good
Spikes - OK
Norinco - puke puke puke

Buy what you really want, not what is available at that second - If a eg RRA/DPMS etc is $400 more than Norinco - then its a no brainer.. whats $400 when you're spending $2-3k?
Least you know the gas key will be properly staked (and checked on assembly) the trigger wont be worse than rubbing 2 pieces of 4x2 together, the receivers will have a reasonable fitment and other uppers are guaranteed to fit - when you're buying non US gear, not made to standards, then you're taking a big gamble. Yanks have been doing it for 40+ years vs a fly by nighter thats been at it for 6 months and using its customer base to iron out its QC and mfg issues.

Stuff to think about and notes:
You will find out pretty quickly that quadrails are mostly useless and become huge when you put covers on them
Handguard length, carbine, mid, rifle, extra long? All my uppers are transitioning to mid and longer length round handguards - I was told I would do this years ago..
90% of triggers are throw away unless something has been put in its place thats not 'mil spec'
Get the furniture you want -sticky Hogue, Hard Magpul, in between Magpul +, ERGO (puke),
Low gas block, front sight gasblock, railed block, adjustable block..?
Gas system length - my 3 gun setup is a mid length 16" - it is a SHITLOAD nicer to shoot than a carbine - so much smoother. Have some 16" rifle length gas barrels to try out
ARs arnt the lightest of guns, and a 20" bull barrel points and handles like shit.. if it a bipod gun then no issues, but a run and gun comp rifle - just say no
No point in a 14.5 on a bipod gun either
A certain 'gunsmith' in the Nth Island chambering barrels, has no idea when it comes to gas port sizes - I know of more of his barrels that have been pulled and put in the parts bin than I know of still on guns - stay away and save yourself the grief

By answering the questions to start with, you end up getting what you ACTUALLY want rather than 'a gun', and in the end, save money as you're not replacing bits
You're not looking at entering the market at the bottom due to the $ range, so why settle for it?
Something will fit the rough picture you need, then its about working with the supplier to tweak it the way you want it
You can have a semi custom gun built for not much more than a out of the box

Oh and if anyone has a horrible camo Rem R15, I'll swap you new black furniture for the 'horrible' camo stuff

Originally Posted by Spanners

Stag.. PUKE... I think the only parts I've ever THROWN away have been Stag
The current DPMS/CMMG/Double Star/Colt/LAR lowers are heaps better than year or so ago - they used to be a little loose
To say CMMG is good but DPMS not, is ignorance - they are the same lower forging, machined in the same jig, with a different name on the side.
i've been to 'big name' mfgs in the US and seen the guys out the back knocking them together from boxes of parts - no machine tooling - just like the rest of them.. I'm not even sure any of the major machinists actually assemble complete rifles?

You can get 100 people to rank them, and you might get a trend, but more than likely it will be based off what the read on the net or their mate, and it wont add up to who ACTUALLY forges and machines them.
Same with uppers forgings- if you think that each company makes their own then you're dreaming - have a look at the forging marks on a bunch of different upper 'brands' - most will be a square or keyhole.. you can buy 2 uppers form the same company with different marks

You can get some nice fruity, non run-of-the-mill bits, however you will pay to play, and some of it is just wank factor

The BEST lower I've EVER seen/got was machined in NZ - it is PERFECT in fitment - no longer in production unfortunately.
Noveske has a good name and up there in quality, however the one I played with was the worst barrel extension/feedramp fitment I think I've ever seen, same with Bravo Company
As a complete package from Puke, OK, Good, V/Good
Stag -puke to OK
RRA - OK - some good
Colt - OK
CMMG - good
Doublestar - good
STI -good - V/good
DPMS - good
Bushmaster - ok
Windham - ok
Remington - ok
JP - V/good
NEA - OK
Noveske - V/good
Smeiser (sp?) - good
BRD - V/good
Spikes - OK
Norinco - puke puke puke

Buy what you really want, not what is available at that second - If a eg RRA/DPMS etc is $400 more than Norinco - then its a no brainer.. whats $400 when you're spending $2-3k?
Least you know the gas key will be properly staked (and checked on assembly) the trigger wont be worse than rubbing 2 pieces of 4x2 together, the receivers will have a reasonable fitment and other uppers are guaranteed to fit - when you're buying non US gear, not made to standards, then you're taking a big gamble. Yanks have been doing it for 40+ years vs a fly by nighter thats been at it for 6 months and using its customer base to iron out its QC and mfg issues.

Stuff to think about and notes:
You will find out pretty quickly that quadrails are mostly useless and become huge when you put covers on them
Handguard length, carbine, mid, rifle, extra long? All my uppers are transitioning to mid and longer length round handguards - I was told I would do this years ago..
90% of triggers are throw away unless something has been put in its place thats not 'mil spec'
Get the furniture you want -sticky Hogue, Hard Magpul, in between Magpul +, ERGO (puke),
Low gas block, front sight gasblock, railed block, adjustable block..?
Gas system length - my 3 gun setup is a mid length 16" - it is a SHITLOAD nicer to shoot than a carbine - so much smoother. Have some 16" rifle length gas barrels to try out
ARs arnt the lightest of guns, and a 20" bull barrel points and handles like shit.. if it a bipod gun then no issues, but a run and gun comp rifle - just say no
No point in a 14.5 on a bipod gun either
A certain 'gunsmith' in the Nth Island chambering barrels, has no idea when it comes to gas port sizes - I know of more of his barrels that have been pulled and put in the parts bin than I know of still on guns - stay away and save yourself the grief

By answering the questions to start with, you end up getting what you ACTUALLY want rather than 'a gun', and in the end, save money as you're not replacing bits
You're not looking at entering the market at the bottom due to the $ range, so why settle for it?
Something will fit the rough picture you need, then its about working with the supplier to tweak it the way you want it
You can have a semi custom gun built for not much more than a out of the box

Man i feel sorry for those poor buggers that have a norinco clone now, stuck with them and will have trouble selling or trading them

The reason brands like Colt, DD, LMT, BCM, Spikes, Noveske etc are "better" is a subjective thing. What they do is up the ante with QC by adhering to or exceeding the requirements set out by the US govt for testing the quality of their bolts and barrels. Their guns are made to not fail you in a life or death situation. They are made for combat basically. Most of the other manufacturers use generic, batch tested parts. Serious end users tend to consider them hobby guns at best and junk at worst. That's basically what you are paying for with the above mentioned brands - the wank factor of owning a "tier 1 AR". I'm not immune, I traded a complete rifle for a Colt upper. Just cuz.

In saying that "low tier" brands like RRA are fine for hunting and pretty much everything else a normal Kiwi would do. I have had a RRA for a year and been very happy with it.

happy just sit down and decide all all the pieces that you want here Rock River Arms: Custom Firearms, Parts, Accessories
then talk to the guys who import them I used phil grey? or phil cross? some phil anyway and he is a good dude to deal with

the real hidden cost is all the bits you add on after. so just order exactly what you want for starters and save yourself some money and a full cubbord of crap. must haves are a free float forend.
crome lined bolts are great
I went non chrome lined barrel, not sure I would next time,
rock river triggers are good enough that you can use them for a while I probably wont change mine unless one comes up cheep as

if you tell us your application we can give you further reccomendations
ie varmit, long range varmit, bush, general goat/deer, ect

also to wet your appetite have a scroll thru here

Post Pics Of Your Hunting/Predator/Varmit AR Here !! - PredatorMasters Forums

you will know what you like by page 32.

Originally Posted by Spanners

Oh and if anyone has a horrible camo Rem R15, I'll swap you new black furniture for the 'horrible' camo stuff

Thanks for your detailed reply. There is some good info to digest there.
Beats the old no dont buy that with no explanatation or alternative...

What I want to acheive is to sell couple of guns .270WSM Tikka plus Howa Heavy 1500 .223 oh plus three or four other bits of hardly used stuff then replace with a semi auto 223
that is carryable for head shooting deer , shooting goats ,rabbits , possums etc at close and say 300 mtr ranges (which is what you get where I hunt) and so needs to be real accurate suppressed and Ill put a good scope on it.
Ill spend probably any where between 3 to 5 k over a period of time to get a keeper. With your reply I can now start doing research from 3/4 of the way instead of the beginning.


Cheers Happy

Originally Posted by Bill999

happy just sit down and decide all all the pieces that you want here Rock River Arms: Custom Firearms, Parts, Accessories
then talk to the guys who import them I used phil grey? or phil cross? some phil anyway and he is a good dude to deal with

the real hidden cost is all the bits you add on after. so just order exactly what you want for starters and save yourself some money and a full cubbord of crap. must haves are a free float forend.
crome lined bolts are great
I went non chrome lined barrel, not sure I would next time,
rock river triggers are good enough that you can use them for a while I probably wont change mine unless one comes up cheep as

if you tell us your application we can give you further reccomendations
ie varmit, long range varmit, bush, general goat/deer, ect

also to wet your appetite have a scroll thru here

Post Pics Of Your Hunting/Predator/Varmit AR Here !! - PredatorMasters Forums

you will know what you like by page 32.

What I want to acheive is to sell couple of guns .270WSM Tikka plus Howa Heavy 1500 .223 oh plus three or four other bits of hardly used stuff then replace with a semi auto 223
that is carryable for head shooting deer , shooting goats ,rabbits , possums etc at close and say 300 mtr ranges (which is what you get where I hunt) and so needs to be real accurate suppressed and Ill put a good scope on it.
Ill spend probably any where between 3 to 5 k over a period of time to get a keeper. With your reply I can now start doing research from 3/4 of the way instead of the beginning.


Cheers Happy

300m for a 223? thats pushing the limits a bit
my RRA will shoot under an inch with hornady steel case 55s

if 300m is the expected max id say go longer than 14inch look more at 18
I have a 16 on mine and at 300 Id stalk closer specially on deer

E: fuck it buy whatever it doesn't affect me