Thread: H & K sl8-6

Do you have your E cat?

Not that you have to to own a nice (ish) AR but it opens other opportunities if you did have your E.

Either way, do NOT listen to anybody that tells you a R15 is a good option. They are idiots.

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Do you have your E cat?

Not that you have to to own a nice (ish) AR but it opens other opportunities if you did have your E.

Either way, do NOT listen to anybody that tells you a R15 is a good option. They are idiots.

How come? What do they rank up light against the NEAs? What do you look for in a decent AR?
I nearly bought one of those R15s :S

You won't go wrong with a RRA. They have Wilson barrels and shoot real nice. Current national 3 gun tactical class champ shoots a Bushmaster with after market trigger, free floating hand guard etc. JPs are nice, but pricey!

The newer NEAs have a smooth finish and a good tight fit between the upper and lower. Yes the trigger is gritty and heavy and would be the first parts to swap out as is most ARs from what ive read on AR15.com forums. But for under 2K much better than a chinese clone. Check out the reviews on Facebook, nzar15 and North Eastern Arms pages.

If you're prepared to spend the dough, do the paperwork, find an exporter, and bring one in yourself, then look at one of the JP Enterprises offerings with the cryogenic supermatch barrel, in .223 Wylde. Either the CTR-02 or the JP-15. You may find one here but you'll be charged a premium. I can attest to the fact that both are capable of 0.25 MOA. When I brought my JP-15 in, the export fee alone was US$250. Landed here with duty etc it cost me just on NZ$5600 all up, then I still had to scope it. But it's an absolute tack driver... This was over two years ago now, when we were being expected to pay almost that kind of money for a plain old Bushy... In some shops, we're still expected to!

JP - JP-15™ Precision Rifle and Upper Assemblies

Ray.

Stag.. PUKE... I think the only parts I've ever THROWN away have been Stag
The current DPMS/CMMG/Double Star/Colt/LAR lowers are heaps better than year or so ago - they used to be a little loose
To say CMMG is good but DPMS not, is ignorance - they are the same lower forging, machined in the same jig, with a different name on the side.
i've been to 'big name' mfgs in the US and seen the guys out the back knocking them together from boxes of parts - no machine tooling - just like the rest of them.. I'm not even sure any of the major machinists actually assemble complete rifles?

You can get 100 people to rank them, and you might get a trend, but more than likely it will be based off what the read on the net or their mate, and it wont add up to who ACTUALLY forges and machines them.
Same with uppers forgings- if you think that each company makes their own then you're dreaming - have a look at the forging marks on a bunch of different upper 'brands' - most will be a square or keyhole.. you can buy 2 uppers form the same company with different marks

You can get some nice fruity, non run-of-the-mill bits, however you will pay to play, and some of it is just wank factor

The BEST lower I've EVER seen/got was machined in NZ - it is PERFECT in fitment - no longer in production unfortunately.
Noveske has a good name and up there in quality, however the one I played with was the worst barrel extension/feedramp fitment I think I've ever seen, same with Bravo Company
As a complete package from Puke, OK, Good, V/Good
Stag -puke to OK
RRA - OK - some good
Colt - OK
CMMG - good
Doublestar - good
STI -good - V/good
DPMS - good
Bushmaster - ok
Windham - ok
Remington - ok
JP - V/good
NEA - OK
Noveske - V/good
Smeiser (sp?) - good
BRD - V/good
Spikes - OK
Norinco - puke puke puke

Buy what you really want, not what is available at that second - If a eg RRA/DPMS etc is $400 more than Norinco - then its a no brainer.. whats $400 when you're spending $2-3k?
Least you know the gas key will be properly staked (and checked on assembly) the trigger wont be worse than rubbing 2 pieces of 4x2 together, the receivers will have a reasonable fitment and other uppers are guaranteed to fit - when you're buying non US gear, not made to standards, then you're taking a big gamble. Yanks have been doing it for 40+ years vs a fly by nighter thats been at it for 6 months and using its customer base to iron out its QC and mfg issues.

Stuff to think about and notes:
You will find out pretty quickly that quadrails are mostly useless and become huge when you put covers on them
Handguard length, carbine, mid, rifle, extra long? All my uppers are transitioning to mid and longer length round handguards - I was told I would do this years ago..
90% of triggers are throw away unless something has been put in its place thats not 'mil spec'
Get the furniture you want -sticky Hogue, Hard Magpul, in between Magpul +, ERGO (puke),
Low gas block, front sight gasblock, railed block, adjustable block..?
Gas system length - my 3 gun setup is a mid length 16" - it is a SHITLOAD nicer to shoot than a carbine - so much smoother. Have some 16" rifle length gas barrels to try out
ARs arnt the lightest of guns, and a 20" bull barrel points and handles like shit.. if it a bipod gun then no issues, but a run and gun comp rifle - just say no
No point in a 14.5 on a bipod gun either
A certain 'gunsmith' in the Nth Island chambering barrels, has no idea when it comes to gas port sizes - I know of more of his barrels that have been pulled and put in the parts bin than I know of still on guns - stay away and save yourself the grief

By answering the questions to start with, you end up getting what you ACTUALLY want rather than 'a gun', and in the end, save money as you're not replacing bits
You're not looking at entering the market at the bottom due to the $ range, so why settle for it?
Something will fit the rough picture you need, then its about working with the supplier to tweak it the way you want it
You can have a semi custom gun built for not much more than a out of the box

Originally Posted by Spanners

Stag.. PUKE... I think the only parts I've ever THROWN away have been Stag
The current DPMS/CMMG/Double Star/Colt/LAR lowers are heaps better than year or so ago - they used to be a little loose
To say CMMG is good but DPMS not, is ignorance - they are the same lower forging, machined in the same jig, with a different name on the side.
i've been to 'big name' mfgs in the US and seen the guys out the back knocking them together from boxes of parts - no machine tooling - just like the rest of them.. I'm not even sure any of the major machinists actually assemble complete rifles?

You can get 100 people to rank them, and you might get a trend, but more than likely it will be based off what the read on the net or their mate, and it wont add up to who ACTUALLY forges and machines them.
Same with uppers forgings- if you think that each company makes their own then you're dreaming - have a look at the forging marks on a bunch of different upper 'brands' - most will be a square or keyhole.. you can buy 2 uppers form the same company with different marks

You can get some nice fruity, non run-of-the-mill bits, however you will pay to play, and some of it is just wank factor

The BEST lower I've EVER seen/got was machined in NZ - it is PERFECT in fitment - no longer in production unfortunately.
Noveske has a good name and up there in quality, however the one I played with was the worst barrel extension/feedramp fitment I think I've ever seen, same with Bravo Company
As a complete package from Puke, OK, Good, V/Good
Stag -puke to OK
RRA - OK - some good
Colt - OK
CMMG - good
Doublestar - good
STI -good - V/good
DPMS - good
Bushmaster - ok
Windham - ok
Remington - ok
JP - V/good
NEA - OK
Noveske - V/good
Smeiser (sp?) - good
BRD - V/good
Spikes - OK
Norinco - puke puke puke

Buy what you really want, not what is available at that second - If a eg RRA/DPMS etc is $400 more than Norinco - then its a no brainer.. whats $400 when you're spending $2-3k?
Least you know the gas key will be properly staked (and checked on assembly) the trigger wont be worse than rubbing 2 pieces of 4x2 together, the receivers will have a reasonable fitment and other uppers are guaranteed to fit - when you're buying non US gear, not made to standards, then you're taking a big gamble. Yanks have been doing it for 40+ years vs a fly by nighter thats been at it for 6 months and using its customer base to iron out its QC and mfg issues.

Stuff to think about and notes:
You will find out pretty quickly that quadrails are mostly useless and become huge when you put covers on them
Handguard length, carbine, mid, rifle, extra long? All my uppers are transitioning to mid and longer length round handguards - I was told I would do this years ago..
90% of triggers are throw away unless something has been put in its place thats not 'mil spec'
Get the furniture you want -sticky Hogue, Hard Magpul, in between Magpul +, ERGO (puke),
Low gas block, front sight gasblock, railed block, adjustable block..?
Gas system length - my 3 gun setup is a mid length 16" - it is a SHITLOAD nicer to shoot than a carbine - so much smoother. Have some 16" rifle length gas barrels to try out
ARs arnt the lightest of guns, and a 20" bull barrel points and handles like shit.. if it a bipod gun then no issues, but a run and gun comp rifle - just say no
No point in a 14.5 on a bipod gun either
A certain 'gunsmith' in the Nth Island chambering barrels, has no idea when it comes to gas port sizes - I know of more of his barrels that have been pulled and put in the parts bin than I know of still on guns - stay away and save yourself the grief

By answering the questions to start with, you end up getting what you ACTUALLY want rather than 'a gun', and in the end, save money as you're not replacing bits
You're not looking at entering the market at the bottom due to the $ range, so why settle for it?
Something will fit the rough picture you need, then its about working with the supplier to tweak it the way you want it
You can have a semi custom gun built for not much more than a out of the box

Man i feel sorry for those poor buggers that have a norinco clone now, stuck with them and will have trouble selling or trading them

The reason brands like Colt, DD, LMT, BCM, Spikes, Noveske etc are "better" is a subjective thing. What they do is up the ante with QC by adhering to or exceeding the requirements set out by the US govt for testing the quality of their bolts and barrels. Their guns are made to not fail you in a life or death situation. They are made for combat basically. Most of the other manufacturers use generic, batch tested parts. Serious end users tend to consider them hobby guns at best and junk at worst. That's basically what you are paying for with the above mentioned brands - the wank factor of owning a "tier 1 AR". I'm not immune, I traded a complete rifle for a Colt upper. Just cuz.

In saying that "low tier" brands like RRA are fine for hunting and pretty much everything else a normal Kiwi would do. I have had a RRA for a year and been very happy with it.

happy just sit down and decide all all the pieces that you want here Rock River Arms: Custom Firearms, Parts, Accessories
then talk to the guys who import them I used phil grey? or phil cross? some phil anyway and he is a good dude to deal with

the real hidden cost is all the bits you add on after. so just order exactly what you want for starters and save yourself some money and a full cubbord of crap. must haves are a free float forend.
crome lined bolts are great
I went non chrome lined barrel, not sure I would next time,
rock river triggers are good enough that you can use them for a while I probably wont change mine unless one comes up cheep as

if you tell us your application we can give you further reccomendations
ie varmit, long range varmit, bush, general goat/deer, ect

also to wet your appetite have a scroll thru here

Post Pics Of Your Hunting/Predator/Varmit AR Here !! - PredatorMasters Forums

you will know what you like by page 32.

Originally Posted by Bill999

happy just sit down and decide all all the pieces that you want here Rock River Arms: Custom Firearms, Parts, Accessories
then talk to the guys who import them I used phil grey? or phil cross? some phil anyway and he is a good dude to deal with

the real hidden cost is all the bits you add on after. so just order exactly what you want for starters and save yourself some money and a full cubbord of crap. must haves are a free float forend.
crome lined bolts are great
I went non chrome lined barrel, not sure I would next time,
rock river triggers are good enough that you can use them for a while I probably wont change mine unless one comes up cheep as

if you tell us your application we can give you further reccomendations
ie varmit, long range varmit, bush, general goat/deer, ect

also to wet your appetite have a scroll thru here

Post Pics Of Your Hunting/Predator/Varmit AR Here !! - PredatorMasters Forums

you will know what you like by page 32.

What I want to acheive is to sell couple of guns .270WSM Tikka plus Howa Heavy 1500 .223 oh plus three or four other bits of hardly used stuff then replace with a semi auto 223
that is carryable for head shooting deer , shooting goats ,rabbits , possums etc at close and say 300 mtr ranges (which is what you get where I hunt) and so needs to be real accurate suppressed and Ill put a good scope on it.
Ill spend probably any where between 3 to 5 k over a period of time to get a keeper. With your reply I can now start doing research from 3/4 of the way instead of the beginning.


Cheers Happy

300m for a 223? thats pushing the limits a bit
my RRA will shoot under an inch with hornady steel case 55s

if 300m is the expected max id say go longer than 14inch look more at 18
I have a 16 on mine and at 300 Id stalk closer specially on deer

Originally Posted by Bill999

300m for a 223? thats pushing the limits a bit
my RRA will shoot under an inch with hornady steel case 55s

if 300m is the expected max id say go longer than 14inch look more at 18
I have a 16 on mine and at 300 Id stalk closer specially on deer

Never 300 for deer. Just for rabbits where it dont matter if you miss plus wild turkey and peacock control. Thats main reason for semi auto
I shoot couple of places where you can get 30 mtrs from deer and sick of blowin massive big holes in them when two quiik rounds small caliber head neck would always do the trick
plus also as selling a tack driver heavy .223 to do this also want some of the longer range Ive grown to enjoy on pest control.
I reckon that Ill order a custom RRA Gun. Will figure out spec and post it next couple weeks to see what you think ..

Thanks all for the help so far steepish learning curve and obviously easy to get burnt.

E: fuck it buy whatever it doesn't affect me

Sounds like you want a good all rounder, this is similar my my first AR and i think it could suit you

RRA ATH carbine
1-8 twist barrel so you can use 70gr projectiles for deer, 18" quality match barrel - accurate and get a few extra FPS over 14.5" or 16", Nice 2 stage trigger - RRA is one of my favorite. Downside is that the heavy profile barrel and the hand guard will make it a bit heavy but its all about trade offs, you gain good accuracy and you have rails to attach anything you want to the hand guard.

Rock River Arms LA-15 ATH Carbine. | Trade Me

Edit: Its a bit cheaper here but out of stock
ROCK RIVER ARMS NZ LAR-15 ATH 223 from Delta Sector NZ

if you did go that way Id swap you for my plain free float hand gard which is the RRA standard free float which is light as buggery.
I want a rail to mount a torch