Thread: "HELP" T3 with shocking grouping ???????

shot a t1x and they are bloody nice. Lefty 22lr soon hopefully.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Personally I despise that "sniper 101" guy for creating the "copper equilibrium" fad of never cleaning your rifle. Rifles get returned that do not meet accuracy guarantee because they are caked full of crap...because "copper equilibrium"

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how can you deplse the guy doing the 101 series, he is a little long winded for my liking but he has a huge talent for shooting . . . nowhere does he say dont clean your rifle barrel.
so some lazy halfwits misunderstand and dont clean their barrels at all which makes work for you . . . despise them if you want to lay some hate around.

other than that you have some good info . . . R

To the OP, what ever you do don’t sell it out of frustration, one of us will buy it off trademe and post on here how cool we are.

Send it to Craig Boswell in Wellington and he’ll sort it for you.

PM me if you need his contact details. If he can’t fix it, he’ll chop it in half and the world will be a better place.

I can pick it up and give it to Craig myself on the 28th of October, if that works for you.

Originally Posted by rossi.45

how can you deplse the guy doing the 101 series, he is a little long winded for my liking but he has a huge talent for shooting . . . nowhere does he say dont clean your rifle barrel.
so some lazy halfwits misunderstand and dont clean their barrels at all which makes work for you . . . despise them if you want to lay some hate around.

other than that you have some good info . . . R

Yes despise him is not really what I meant. Was not worded well. I agree most of his info is very good and is a great resource for new (and old) shooters. I just dislike that particular episode.
I often see questions on shooting groups & pages "how often should I clean my barrel", followed by responses "why would you want to clean your barrel, iv shot 900rounds down my rifle, never cleaned it, and it still shoots tight", along with a link to the sniper101 "copper equilibrium" thing.

Maybe people misinterpret it and are guilty of blindly following what the next guy says or does, but I think that video nonetheless is a solid driving factor behind people not cleaning their barrels.

Originally Posted by HWWSM Guy

Hey There People I have got a T3 in 223 with 8" twist. approx 8 years old
I cant get it to group smaller than 2" with an average group of say 4 to 6 " at 100m. with the odd flyer not even on paper????
I have owned it since new, rifle has at a educated guess has fired around 250 to 300 rounds (Mostly at the range trying to sight it in)..I'm not a hundred percent sure how long its been out or even if it has ever shoot well in the first place???? I bought a new Leupold 3x9 AR scope (Not Cheap) at around 100 rounds after i noticed i couldn't hit the side of a barn.
It has never had a hard knock or drop that i know of,
I have optilock rings from new, (Scope is tight) also tightly screwed to stock.
I have free floated the Barrel, trigger is at about 1.5 to 2 pounds
I have cleaned it after every shoot, (hot and cold).I have left it dirty on purpose, (hot and cold)
I have used factory ammo from $65 to $15 for 20, Different pills from 50,55,60,62,69 & 72 grains, And approximately 8 different brands.
I got a friend who shoots comps with his 223 to work a few loads up and he worked on the jump and We used top quality formed cases once fired from my gun, diff types & weights of pills up to 75 grains (once got 1.5" group think it was a fluke)
Buy the way I can shoot clover leafs no probs with other good rifles when i have a good rest or bags etc.
WHAT DO I DO NEXT???????

First Question when did you free float the barrel?
If it was shooting fine before you free floated it, then this will be you problem, you will have to either Stabilize the forend of the stock and bed the action or get it re-pressure point bedded by a good gunsmith.
Plastic stocks don't have enough strength in the forend to be free floated without some work that's why they are pressure point bedded in the factory. A simple check is to hit the bottom of the fore end with your palm and if you can hear it hitting the barrel you will be lucky to get it to group.
P.S I brought a REM700 cheap from TM because the original owner couldn't get it to shoot, he had tried to free float it and never cleaned the bore. After bedding and stabilizing the stock and giving it a good clean it was back to shooting like it should.

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Hey fellas
i've been busy following all your advice (Thank you)
So I've pulled down rifle cleaned everything removed scope and rings all seemed to be tight and firm recoil block/lug seemed to be in correct position the action screws were tight and firm I'm confident they were not over tightened (however i dont have a torque wrench)
I started the barrel cleaning process last night and after the third go i was studying the barrel and noticed a dark ring about 1" in from end. (please see pics attached)
It seems a bit weird not pitted as such but more of an even hollow point????? I dont rush home from every hunt or from the range and clean down my rifles every time however they are ALWAYS cleaned within the next few days and NEVER leave them wet or dirty in the safe.
Any comments on what this is???? and am i wasting my time from this point on to try and get a sub MOA gun?????

Pic,s don't seem to be working ?

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Fire a group of 5 shots, if the recoil lug isnt locking the action you should get "2" groups, one of 2 shots quite close together and another of 3 a little way away from the other. Called double grouping its quite diagnostic of poor bedding. Of course if the rifle was pressure bedded in the first place free floating the barrel wil just have made it worse.

Did you do the free floating before or after it started making bigger groups?

You need to look down the barrel with a borescope to see what is going on. Your local H&F should have a borescope. The pic links don't work.

If its a ring bulge (gunsmith will quickly tell you) then have the barrel shortened and recrowned to eliminate it . Can be caused by water, oil or snow etc in the barrel prior to a shot being fired.

Originally Posted by Woody

If its a ring bulge (gunsmith will quickly tell you) then have the barrel shortened and recrowned to eliminate it . Can be caused by water, oil or snow etc in the barrel prior to a shot being fired.

Yes. You can often feel if there is a bulge by running your fingers up and down the barrel.

well actually as far as the free floating is concerned i have not in reality properly done that as i never took the lugs off stock as i was thinking that as they there from factory that they should probably stay. i just made sure that there was no other pressure points along the barrel other than those lugs
factory bedding seems to be in good order

Try and double click on the word attachment for the pics above there are 4 from slightly diff angles

well actually as far as the free floating is concerned i have not in reality properly done that i guess sorry to all those that i have mislead as i never took the lugs off stock as i was thinking that as they there from factory that they should probably stay. i just made sure that there was no other pressure points along the barrel other than those lugs
factory bedding seems to be in good order

Try and double click on the word attachment for the pics above there are 4 from slightly diff angles i think the second and forth pics are working

If you are in Nelson, flick me a PM & bring it round before the weekend & I will see if I can sort it for you.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

If you are in Nelson, flick me a PM & bring it round before the weekend & I will see if I can sort it for you.

Good bugger right there