Thread: Hi tec stock failure

Originally Posted by 300MAG

... I will not be blackmailed....
To have someone ring me on saturday afternoon demanding a replacement stock and threatening to post photos if I didn't replace it....

And these are words from a 'businessman'??!!

Originally Posted by 300MAG

Well Jeff as I told you in our conversation I will not be blackmailed in replacing a carbonfibre stock that you some how broke after two years (most probably falling on the stock putting a large sideways force on the grip area not what the stock is designed for).
We have never advertised that we supply a lifetime warranty we build ultra lightweight hunting stocks and yes I have see several of our stock broken almost all by a fall, this is totally our of our control.
To have someone ring me on saturday afternoon demanding a replacement stock and threatening to post photos if I didn't replace it. Also I did not say you were hard on your gear I said the stock would need to have been fallen on to damage the grip area like that.

You have some balls Ken to say I am trying to blackmail you. I couldn’t give a rats arse about the price of the stock. Your attitude stinks.
People can make up there own mind about your weak product, and lack of support. As you can tell there is no impact marks on the stock from a large fall as you are implying.

Buyer be aware that’s all. Discussion over

Seems like a lot of force would have been needed to make that break. You sure??

I didn't realise that a carbon fibre stock is all carbon and no fibre. I always thought it would be like fibre glass and splinter and separate in strands, not just snap through like a fresh carrot. Does all carbon fibre break like that ??

Two sides to every story ay.

I own one of Ken’s stocks , there is no way my stock would break by strapping it to my pack and catching the barrel on a tree as I walk past it .
There has to be more to this than meets the eye .
I’m not ready to throw Ken and his business under the bus just yet .
I have no Dog in this fight, but is this really the best way to air your grievances and find a solution?

No axe to grind either way, but I do love a good engineering failure analysis challenge.

Carbon fibre structures are typically strong for their weight, until they have a stress raiser present. Its mechanical properties then result in stress concentrations not typically seen in other materials, which can lead to a failure. Basically, its not as forgiving as other materials.

Looking at the first photo, in the palm swell, what are the marks on the surface of the stock to the left of the break?
Are these scuff marks?

I've had a carbon stock break on me, but it was cause I was a bit rough on it at the time, repaired it with Araldite and some glass fibre, not the prettiest repair but strong and functional. But it bought home to me the fragile nature of carbon compared to regular fibreglass.

If the stock in this thread was mine, I'd be asking the maker if he could fix and be reasonable about it - if he was not playing ball, I'd just shrug my shoulders and fix it myself. Just happy I'm still strong enough to carry a regular weight rifle about the hills.......

I just looked at photo of how rifle was carried.........that looks so hilarious.sort of like an old school CB aerial...or even a shortwave one...how the hell do you walk with it like that???? I wont carry a internal frame pack if load comes up above top of my head...why the K2 Hunter pack is so good...and even with rifle slung on hook it doesnt stick up like that......yip if my stock cracked I would be pissed about it....get it fixed and get over it,there has been advice on how to go about it already posted....superlightweight just HAD TO have a weakness....guess we now have some idea of what it is....scuff/scratch it up and it can break...carbon arrows carry warnings about not using with ANY DAMAGE......and the results of doing so are all over the net,and are horrific...carbon fibre fly rods snap if hit with weighted nymphs......
here is a tip for any who care to take it...sling your rifle across your FRONT when carrying a pack....with longer barrel and suppressor its how I carry anyway.

Carbon fiber will definitely shatter, arrows are bad for that.

It is not relay surprising these break when there is so much emphasis on light weight, just like the bike mentioned that a few break. For bush hunting in the NI I would always stick with wood, a chassis or something synthetic but solid.

Hardly related, but Stug's carbon stocks are tough as teak. Mine have taken a few beatings. I wonder if they were made in a similar way to this Hi Tec that has broken?

I have a Hi Tec too and have no concerns about it. Taken a few spills with it.

that is typically where stocks break
Thinnest point with the greatest leverage
If the rifle was the other way around and it happened when you took it off it would make more Sence than a Manuka branch

I have no Experience with carbon gunstocks but I have a lot of experience with carbon fiber fishing rods
They are super strong but also very easy weakened even the lightest scratch can Compromise strength
They won’t Necessarily break right away but they just break for no Apparent reason one day when the rod is loaded
If I had to geuss this is what happened to your stock
You probably had some very minor damage on the wrist probably not even visible just a scratch from hunting would do it
They you loaded it in a way it didn’t like doesn’t take much once that prior damage is there

Not saying that is what happened it’s just my geuss with no experience

Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

I have no Experience with carbon gunstocks but I have a lot of experience with carbon fiber fishing rods
They are super strong but also very easy weakened even the lightest scratch can Compromise strength
They won’t Necessarily break right away but they just break for no Apparent reason one day when the rod is loaded
If I had to geuss this is what happened to your stock
You probably had some very minor damage on the wrist probably not even visible just a scratch from hunting would do it
They you loaded it in a way it didn’t like doesn’t take much once that prior damage is there

Not saying that is what happened it’s just my geuss with no experience

I'd agree with this , again no experience with stocks but plenty with rowing shells and blades, and a wee bit with yacht masts - the slightest bit of "damage" and they'll go, and the noise they make when they do is something you'll never forget!.

Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

I have no Experience with carbon gunstocks but I have a lot of experience with carbon fiber fishing rods
They are super strong but also very easy weakened even the lightest scratch can Compromise strength
They won’t Necessarily break right away but they just break for no Apparent reason one day when the rod is loaded
If I had to geuss this is what happened to your stock
You probably had some very minor damage on the wrist probably not even visible just a scratch from hunting would do it
They you loaded it in a way it didn’t like doesn’t take much once that prior damage is there

Not saying that is what happened it’s just my geuss with no experience

Same, same - I have no experience with a carbon fibre stock, these ultra light fan dangled things some people crave nowadays just dont float my boat. But I do have a bit of experience with rods, and some other CF stuff, and the slightest nick, damage, scratch etc can cause the item to break, usually while under load. I would respectfully suggest that this stock has had some slight damage prior, just enough to weaken the integrity of the exterior. Then at some later time, may only be a few minutes, may be months later, the stock has had some stress from a direction different to what the design has allowed for, and bingo, your ultra light fan dangled fancy CF stock lets go. The stock exterior may have very well been bruised when the pack was laid down on a small prominent stone, maybe even when it was being carried in the pack, maybe the bruise was not even apparent, maybe it was just placed the wrong way in the back of your truck on the way to hunting. The reality is who knows but it up and bloody broke. Now you can get pissy cos it happened just when you wanted your bang stick to go bang, or you can get pissy cos you never realised how fragile CF products can be. Or you could contact the manufacturer on his day off and ask him politely or impolitely, "whats he gonna do about it". Personally I would've sucked it up and contacted him on a work day, and asked what could be done. Expecting a replacement after 2 years is a bit of a big ask, how long do you expect a warranty to be? Or you could ask politely how much for a replacement stock cos you like the product.
To call out a manufacturer of a very well presented and respected product on a public forum is a no no in my book! And for said manufacturer having to resort to posting on the forum to put forward his side of the story........should never have to happen. As a manufacturer for many years, I fixed any later issues at my own cost regardless of fault or usage, EXCEPT where the customer was acting like a dick!
Me thinks there is possibly more to this story than we have been told, and given Kens following and reputation for quality, I would have no hesitation in buying one of his stocks if I was inclined to go down the CF stock.