Thread: Hunting and fishing .223 ammo

I heard from reputable sources that the H&F 223 ammo is Belmont.

I brought a 50 pack of it with a voucher 2 years ago, it shot really well and worked great on the wallabies, I went in to buy more off a friends of mine who works at Hunting and Fishing, they were out of stock so he told me to buy it off Belmont Ammunition. Belmont make it for H&F and re-box it. From memory I brought the Belmont Black deal and it was $599 for 1000. Much more cost effective

Originally Posted by Stocky

More specifically the h and f rounds are Belmont produced and known for case head separation. My ar used to rip case heads of regularly even when gased right down And had two case heads removed by a ruger m77 along with quite a few cracked cases.
I gave the last 100 away.

@Stocky - this is a bit of a revelation to me. I've been reloading ADI cases for the last 18 months or so and now that some of them are getting into their 4th or 5th cycle I've started to get fatigue failures. I was wondering what I was doing wrong but it sounds like this is a well-known "thing". I had a couple of early case failures on my AR too... not that I blamed the AR for that... but thinking more about it I can understand how the AR was a little harsh when compared to the bolt action.

This photo shows the various degrees of failures, from just the faintest of line on the case to complete separation:



As you can imagine I've become a lot more fussy with rejections and after reading your comment on this thread I think I might retire the ADI brass after 3 cycles.

Aside from that the Belmont loads shoot very well. I've been emulating the Belmont factory ammo by reloading these with the Belmont 747 Action Rifle Powder (26.6 gr) and the Hornady 55gr SP pills to a COL of 2.230" and getting excellent results in all rifles.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

You bought from them..................

Oh My son, how could you? ......The Lord will forgive you but say 10 Hail Mary's and put $50 n the plate next Sunday.

Originally Posted by planenutz

@Stocky - this is a bit of a revelation to me. I've been reloading ADI cases for the last 18 months or so and now that some of them are getting into their 4th or 5th cycle I've started to get fatigue failures...................

Out of interest, when you anneal do you do full or neck case?

I’ll give these a crack then look at buying some direct if they work well I don’t do much roo shooting, but then I haven’t had a .223 before so may find I get out more often. My 8yr old daughter super keen to come out with me, so more likely to get away if I take one of the kids with me haha

Originally Posted by planenutz

@Stocky - this is a bit of a revelation to me. I've been reloading ADI cases for the last 18 months or so and now that some of them are getting into their 4th or 5th cycle I've started to get fatigue failures. I was wondering what I was doing wrong but it sounds like this is a well-known "thing". I had a couple of early case failures on my AR too... not that I blamed the AR for that... but thinking more about it I can understand how the AR was a little harsh when compared to the bolt action.

This photo shows the various degrees of failures, from just the faintest of line on the case to complete separation:

Attachment 131584

As you can imagine I've become a lot more fussy with rejections and after reading your comment on this thread I think I might retire the ADI brass after 3 cycles.

Aside from that the Belmont loads shoot very well. I've been emulating the Belmont factory ammo by reloading these with the Belmont 747 Action Rifle Powder (26.6 gr) and the Hornady 55gr SP pills to a COL of 2.230" and getting excellent results in all rifles.

In all fairness I gave my brass away with a warning. I blamed the AR but after a bolt action had a separation I called it. Only takes that one time it manages to close up with the front half of the last bit of brass still in the chamber and your "savings" go out the window.

To be completely fair it shot well in both and although I only shot a few goats and a fallow it performed fine.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

Out of interest, when you anneal do you do full or neck case?

Good question @Kiwi_Sapper I have only been annealing the necks. When I first started on the .223 I wasn't annealing them at all... too many to do... didn't think there was too much of a need etc., but after researching things a bit more saw there might be some value and it might add longevity. To be fair I never had a neck split on any of the .223 brass I used - and to date (either with our without the annealing) I still haven't had a neck split. I'm not running hot loads at all, just a direct copy of the factory stuff.

I still wonder why these fatigue cracks occur consistently in the same location. I have had a couple of PPU cases let go too (again after 5 or 6 cycles... they seem to last longer than the ADI brass) and like the ADI the PPU was in the same location. I put it down to this being the normal fatigue point for the .223 rounds but haven't researched it any further. I was also wondering if this was a "hot point" - the location of concentrated heat as a result of the Primer plasma hitting the wall of the case or something super-technical like that. I have no idea but I would love to hear from anybody else who can shed some light on it for me. Learning is a fun part of reloading.

Seen a few other .223 ADI cases let go the same way after minimal reloads. Not mine as haven't used any ADI brass and I haven't had any .223 case head seperations in thousands of rounds through AR's and bolt guns (but no doubt will do soon by making the previous statement).

Anyone know if the Belmont/H&F ammo uses new ADI brass or once fired?

It's once fired adi typical dates are 16 and 17 at least the lots I have are dated that. You can see the remains of the primer stakes that military ammo gets.
I put over 1000 of the belmont black through my missed ar with no issues. Mind you never picked up any of the cases to look at them.
The only problem I had with it was when I decided to reload some that had been fired in my bolt action. I'd resized about 20 when the next one left the body about 10 mm up from the base in the die. PITA to remove.
About 400 have been through the bolt action so far and left the brass where it lies.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

Oh My son, how could you? ......The Lord will forgive you but say 10 Hail Mary's and put $50 n the plate next Sunday.

Attachment 131585

@Kiwi Sapper Moonlighting as a minister of the Church hmm?

Lightning bolt in, Three, Two, One.

Glad I wasn't standing beside you.

You smell burnt.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

It's once fired adi... You can see the remains of the primer stakes that military ammo gets.

Yes, definitely. I don't think they make any secret about this - and its not a bad thing. It's still bloody good ammo at a great price. Best of all, its NZ made and you're supporting a local company who are keeping Kiwi workers gainfully employed. What's not to like about that!

I’m pretty happy with that. I’m not generally the best bench shooter, so pretty stoked with that group