Thread: Hunting Rifle

Originally Posted by yeah_na_missed

@Farmer_John, I recall @DJS asked a similar question recently, and got an equally long-winded/varied response (https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....eabouts-97556/). I'm sure DJS wouldn't mind if you flicked him a message asking about his experience, what he ended up with, and how that's gone for him. From what I recall, he ended up with a 7mm-08, and was pretty happy with it.

6.5x55/.243/.270/.308/7mm-08 and any in between will get you started and put down deer within 200m. I concur with the Winchester Model 70 suggestion (maybe a little biased) cracking rifles, and much prefer carrying mine in .270 over my Rem 700 in .308, but .308 gets used more as .270 is not suppressed and I like hearing things.

Great advice above about seeing what fits and what doesn't. I tried a mates Tikka and it really didn't fit me, just felt awkward to hold. Also strongly agree with buying second hand!

As for the advice about giving less advice... well that's the darnedest thing I ever heard.

Good luck in the search! Remember your first rifle doesn't have to be your last. There is a healthy trade to and fro on here, just get something and rip into it!

The one drawback with control feed is that it's not possible to drop a round on the magazine follower and load it, the round needs to come up from the mag. I've seen people "hammer " a live round into the chamber this way and be unable to get it out.
I know this is slightly off topic but it's worth realising.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The one drawback with control feed is that it's not possible to drop a round on the magazine follower and load it, the round needs to come up from the mag. I've seen people "hammer " a live round into the chamber this way and be unable to get it out.
I know this is slightly off topic but it's worth realising.

what rifles doesnt this work on?
for all my life Iv had CRF starting with Brno's and now kimbers and all of them happily take rounds dropped on the follower
the ejector just clicks past it with no problems

Since when has anyone on this forum ever stated "plastic tikka in 6.5 crudmore only rifle to buy" ? Plenty have suggested tikka / creedmoor to be a suitable calibre on other posts like this with people asking for advice but im yet to see someone try and force a creedmoor down someones throat as the be all and end all. Big long posts about why new hunters should buy 50+ year old control feed heavy wooden rifles in calibres like .270 on the other hand..?

I find it comical because the reality is for majority of new hunters a plastic fantastic tikka in 6.5 creedmoor is arguably one of the best choices a new shooter could make. Very affordable to buy new, very accurate factory ammo available, modest recoil & a huge amount of aftermarket support so an easy thing to modify and upgrade as time goes on and your skills grow.

Originally Posted by Bill999

what rifles doesnt this work on?
for all my life Iv had CRF starting with Brno's and now kimbers and all of them happily take rounds dropped on the follower
the ejector just clicks past it with no problems

Yip I had a ruger in .223 that feed fine off the follower I was warned is damage the bolt that way but never did

All I would say is any new or second hand good quality center-fire rifle above .223 with a reasonable new or second hand good quality scope.
Available budget will be the deciding factor along with what you anticipate its mostly likely being used for as regards calibre you end up with.

Set your budget and options will be obvious.

We all have our preferences but they are not or may not be yours!

Originally Posted by Bill999

what rifles doesnt this work on?
for all my life Iv had CRF starting with Brno's and now kimbers and all of them happily take rounds dropped on the follower
the ejector just clicks past it with no problems

There was a post a while back about the BSA controlled feed actions getting damaged by this.

Originally Posted by Bill999

what rifles doesnt this work on?
for all my life Iv had CRF starting with Brno's and now kimbers and all of them happily take rounds dropped on the follower
the ejector just clicks past it with no problems

My parker hale safari won't, and I've seen a featherlight Winchester plus several others which do the same. It's to do with the size and shape of the extractor. I also have a Husqvarna that will feed and one that won't.
This photo is of the parker hale extractor and the Husqvarna that feeds. Notice there the chamfer on the one in the left compared to the flat face on the other, that encourages the extractor to slip over the rim. For what it's worth the ph is a sparkbrook assembled from the pile of kar 98s they had so some parts have little waffennamps. The huski is a commercial Santa Barbara action.

Thanks @Marty Henry one photo is worth 1000 words and that photo will help @Farmer_John understand what he is look for.
The left bolt looks to be a bigger diameter and looks less warn than the right hand one.
Some ex military 98 action, which have seen a lot of action, possibly firing thousands or tens of thousands, rounds will have visible wear one the extractor claw and lopcking lugs. The good thing is, replacement parts are readily available from any reputable Gunsmith. You could easily replace the worn ectractor claw and get it feeding sweet as.

Or, just buy something designed and manufactured in this century and then there's no need to concern yourself with the intricacies antiquated rifles or any need to take your "new" rifle straight to a gunsmith.

Practice safe firearms handling. There's a whole chain of failures one would need to make before the only thing between you and an ND is the virtue of a controlled feed action. Seriously. There is zero need to get one purely for such an imperceptibly small hypothetical "benefit". Smh.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

true I have nothing against a lever action -just many are 30-30 - not my idea of an ideal calibre - okay for close scrub work - buts its more the trigger it is often not my standard with a lever action - and one has to bush stalk on safety - but if you really like the look of one fine

weve had this discussion before...the HUGE ADVANTAGE of a lever action..be it a 94 or a BLR is no need for a safety...carry with hammer on what is a not cocked and not sitting on primer...99% of hammer guns have it...it CANNOT fire untill hammer is brought right back and trigger depressed..and you can easily do this silently if up close. very quick follow up shot/shots,most are very pointable...

to the OP...... Work the problem backwards...workout what you want to do with rifle..what you NEED it to do...how big of bit of lead ..how much energy at your thinking will be maximum range used....how much $$$$ you have to spend.
Im all for buying something 2nd hand and maybe cosmetically a bit rough for first rifle...use it and learn...and learn and learn..THEN go and buy something you think will last forever...
others seem to buy different rifle every six months
its a bit like wives/life partners........hard to get the perfect woman first time around...and VERY VERY few marry the highschool sweetheart and stay married for life....

@Hugh Shields
The bolts interchange and are the same case head diameter. I have push feed Mausers and Remington button plungers as well I have no preference for any of the systems to be honest.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

weve had this discussion before...the HUGE ADVANTAGE of a lever action..be it a 94 or a BLR is no need for a safety...carry with hammer on what is a not cocked and not sitting on primer...99% of hammer guns have it...it CANNOT fire untill hammer is brought right back and trigger depressed..and you can easily do this silently if up close. very quick follow up shot/shots,most are very pointable...

to the OP...... Work the problem backwards...workout what you want to do with rifle..what you NEED it to do...how big of bit of lead ..how much energy at your thinking will be maximum range used....how much $$$$ you have to spend.
Im all for buying something 2nd hand and maybe cosmetically a bit rough for first rifle...use it and learn...and learn and learn..THEN go and buy something you think will last forever...
others seem to buy different rifle every six months
its a bit like wives/life partners........hard to get the perfect woman first time around...and VERY VERY few marry the highschool sweetheart and stay married for life....

I must admit to a soft spot for the 94 - and some of the new Winchester reproductions are very nice - but the calibers for those 30-30 - not my cup of tea

Farmer ... ironically, a question on this site is not actually best place to get practical advice for an intended first rifle. Positives yes .. but you'll get dozens of answers. Alot of it interesting - but not all useful for first rifle purchase for our Cantab/Coast conditions. Might help to come back to some basics that work here...simplify it!

You do not need to spend $1500-2000 on some name brand rifle. You can if you wish to - but do you need them for effective field shooting? No. And you do not need to choose control over push feed actions as a necessity? I've owned alot of centrefires with both and its not a necessary selection criterion. What you need first up is a reasonably regarded brand, accuracy, reliability, good ammo availability and price, and importantly - good form and fit for you. Secondhand fine if good condition.

Some makes that work exceedingly well for our team - Savage, Marlin XS7 (have had 2 and they performed way above price point), Howa, Winchester model 70, Tikka etc. All of these with right ammos shoot extremely well on range and in field. Well under MOA. Most are also available at good prices. Re calibers for our conditions, you need something with punch and legs for medium range - ie out to 300-400 or so. And a caliber that will not be subject to ammo availability fluctuation, and high pricing. 6.5 Creedmore good, but ammo dearer. Example - packet of 20 Fiocchi 308 currently $44 at GC recently, while 6.5 had one option only at $90+. For your first up learner rifle here I'd look at 308, 7m08 and 270. Even 30-06. Traditional, available, and extremely effective.

Just talking to couple of team-mates - one has an earlier wooden stock Savage 308 suppressed. Weather warrior I think. He may sell that and it could be ideal for Cantab/Coast. You'd need to play with it for fit, and if near Chch come to range with us to confirm its accuracy and help you with yours. Another teammate has several good scopes - so whole effective setup may be less than $1500. A good starter example.. others will suggest good setups too.

If I were you I'd probly now stop focussing on this thread and its many answers. Confusing. Ignore this answer too if it helps.. Yes go instead to an NZDA day as suggested, or to range with some v experienced local shooters. That will quickly define what works here, what you need to buy.

And buying a sharp 22LR and learning to use that accurately is a great idea. If you drop bunnies at 100m with a 22 - our team do - its the perfect practice for deer at 3-400m.

Remember - keep it simple. It is. Cheers mudz

The popularity of the controlled feed Mauser 98 action verses the less popular push feed action, is mirrored in the history of the Winchester Model 70. An abridged snap-shot of that history is below, with links to more detailed information at the bottom.

Winchester Model 70 Produced:
• 1936–1963 (pre-1964, controlled feed) (Original)… introduced in 1936, earning the moniker "The Rifleman's Rifle".[1] The action has some design similarities to Mauser designs and it is a development of the earlier Winchester Model 54, itself being based on a Mauser 98–type action.[2] Hugely popular with American shooters and hunters

• 1964–1992 (post-1964 push feed) (Classic). Push feed introduced for economy reasons, it’s cheaper to engineer a push feed bolt, than a Mauser 98 bolt. Changes were not well received by American shooters and hunters. The Model 70 become less popular, sales fell.

• 1992 – 2006 – Present Day. Reintroduced Controlled Round Feed and Controlled Round Push Feed. Popularity and sales increased.

Since its inception in 1936 the Model 70 has been chambered to virtually every calibre known to God. All of them based on a modernised derivative of the original Mauser 98 action (Designed 1898–1936). This century the Model 70, with its wooden stock and modernised Mauser 98 action, has been chambered to modern cartridges such as the; 6.5 Grendel (*2003), 6.8 Rem SPC (*2004), 6.5 Creedmoor (*2008), 6.5 PRC (*2012) (*denotes year cartridge introduced, not necessarily the year the Model 70 was produced in that calibre).

For forum members such as @30.06king, @Pommy, @Trout, @STC, @6.5 CRD, to be crapping on about the technology being 50 – 60 years is simply disingenuous, given that the above four calibres have only come to existence in the past 11 – 20 years?

How is it possible that this technology is 50 or 60 years old given that Winchester are continually developing and improving their firearms?

A more accurate statement would read something like, “The Winchester Model 70, with it’s modern day variant of the original Mauser 98 bolt action, has evolved, developed, changed and improved to meet the needs and demands of the most discerning modern day shooter and hunter. Own one with pride!”

Wikipedia links to factual reading material below for @Farmer_John and other new hunters, not for the experts on this forum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winche...e%20Century%22

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_f...ontrolled_feed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_M_98

Remember: Dinosaurs will rise up and take over the world in 2024!

Thank you Hugh that was neat - now if I had unlimited funds then I could build up a stalking rifle - but I would use an old Sako Finnbear action and with that a new fluted barrel and a modern carbon fibre stock - suppressor - in .270 why the Sako Finnbear because its sheer quality - feel silky - solid - great trigger - now many would say well why not just get modern - because in my opinion so many modern actions feel like they are made from recycled ladas - tinny scratchy nah - pre 64 Winchester actions are well used actions in the states for custom rifles - why because they are so damn good - what would be wrong with a Parker Hale Safari Delux for a new hunter - give it a new barrel - nice walnut - nice Husqvarna on here in 30-06 ideal drop any deer in NZ - yah dont need new