Thread: I need help! 270 barrel chop, cant make a decision

Semantics. Should have added the disclaimer that my comments were for available factory loads, correct you can adjust things with reloading to offset some loss of barrel length.

As far as the short barrel .308, again with factory loads the real world performance is crap in a word. Reloading you can adjust and offset the loss of barrel length, but with factory loads most rounds are using projectiles of suitable jacket density and core hardness to offer reliable performance from short range out to say 250m or so give or take at standard SAAMI velocities. Chopping a barrel takes it out of SAAMI spec, something that needs to be considered. OK if you are happy to accept the consequences of the decision, and basically treat the round as a wildcat and reload accordingly.
For .308 I've seen some of these rounds start to have expansion issues (slug velocity too slow for reliable expansion) out of what are considered 'short' barrels (14" overall) at some fairly close ranges, not something I'd consider a reliable option after watching a few animals clean disappear after what should have been a solid hit and a definite killing shot. Yes you can offset that with reloading but with this discussion, I didn't see any reference to reloading in the initial question so have only considered the factory load option.

Re. 7.62x39 (getting off from the .270 subject obviously), but yep some of the chinese sourced ammo is not good - having said that with respected brand ammo loaded with an on-spec projectile used within it's limitations from a standard length barrel (and standard on a lot of x39's is 18" if not shorter) the caliber will drop anything in a bush hunting situation out to 150m with complete reliability. One of the issues with the x39 in NZ is it often gets reloaded using whatever .308 pill is on hand, which can lead to issues in the bore sealing area in the Russian-spec barrels (.312) and weird/variable terminal performance. I stand by the statement no real world advantage with the .308 but add the proviso 'over the average bush hunting situation out to 150m', and the package is far more pleasant to handle, shoot and work with. And I've used a lot of 7.62 and .308 over the years. Probably dropped more animals with the x39 recently though, a cheap, cheerful JW-103 which is just nice to use (after bedding and sorting the scope mounting setup, originally factory tapped by foot not hand). Given ideal conditions, I'd have no issue with taking a 200m shot from the x39, but again that's using decent factory ammo and not chinese stuff of unknown parentage and likely carting different pills in the same box. Worst example of that I saw was a box of 50 sporting soft points, that turned out to be 34 copper jacketed soft point, 14 copper washed magnetic soft point and 2 FMJ...

I wouldn't chop or put a moderator the rifle, especially as its sentimental...just enjoy shooting it with muffs or plugs...only takes a few seconds to put em in even if hunting...when you are ready get a short lightweight 308 with a DPT and enjoy shooting that too....

Originally Posted by No.3

Semantics. Should have added the disclaimer that my comments were for available factory loads, correct you can adjust things with reloading to offset some loss of barrel length.

As far as the short barrel .308, again with factory loads the real world performance is crap in a word. Reloading you can adjust and offset the loss of barrel length, but with factory loads most rounds are using projectiles of suitable jacket density and core hardness to offer reliable performance from short range out to say 250m or so give or take at standard SAAMI velocities. Chopping a barrel takes it out of SAAMI spec, something that needs to be considered. OK if you are happy to accept the consequences of the decision, and basically treat the round as a wildcat and reload accordingly.
For .308 I've seen some of these rounds start to have expansion issues (slug velocity too slow for reliable expansion) out of what are considered 'short' barrels (14" overall) at some fairly close ranges, not something I'd consider a reliable option after watching a few animals clean disappear after what should have been a solid hit and a definite killing shot. Yes you can offset that with reloading but with this discussion, I didn't see any reference to reloading in the initial question so have only considered the factory load option.

Re. 7.62x39 (getting off from the .270 subject obviously), but yep some of the chinese sourced ammo is not good - having said that with respected brand ammo loaded with an on-spec projectile used within it's limitations from a standard length barrel (and standard on a lot of x39's is 18" if not shorter) the caliber will drop anything in a bush hunting situation out to 150m with complete reliability. One of the issues with the x39 in NZ is it often gets reloaded using whatever .308 pill is on hand, which can lead to issues in the bore sealing area in the Russian-spec barrels (.312) and weird/variable terminal performance. I stand by the statement no real world advantage with the .308 but add the proviso 'over the average bush hunting situation out to 150m', and the package is far more pleasant to handle, shoot and work with. And I've used a lot of 7.62 and .308 over the years. Probably dropped more animals with the x39 recently though, a cheap, cheerful JW-103 which is just nice to use (after bedding and sorting the scope mounting setup, originally factory tapped by foot not hand). Given ideal conditions, I'd have no issue with taking a 200m shot from the x39, but again that's using decent factory ammo and not chinese stuff of unknown parentage and likely carting different pills in the same box. Worst example of that I saw was a box of 50 sporting soft points, that turned out to be 34 copper jacketed soft point, 14 copper washed magnetic soft point and 2 FMJ...

Scott Traill who is a very well respected gunsmith used to have a few videos of shooting with 10" and 12" 308s he made including shooting deer out to nearly 500 yards with them.

There are 168gr eld factory loads available which are probably more powerful than my reloads so do equally as far. 178gr eld factory loads, 165gr SST loads and 150gr superformance loads all factory that will all most likely do 400 yards on deer out of a 16" 308 barrel. So yup plenty of factory .308 loads. Don't know of a factory 7.62x39 load that I would even consider to shoot a deer with over 200 yards with a 16" barrel in a 7.62x39.
You stated no real world advantage in bush hunting ranges out to 150 metres. I know what I would rather have in my hands out of a .308 and a 7.62x39 on a big roaring red, Sika, Rusa, Wapiti or a Sambar and I can tell you that not many if any hunters would choose the 7.62x39. I can run reduced 130gr loads in the .308 that don't recoil at all and still eat the 7.62x39.

However the discussion was about .270s and the factory eldx load and superformance load will do more than fine out of a 19" barrel with not a significant amount more blast or recoil than a 22"

Originally Posted by Mangle

I wouldn't chop or put a moderator the rifle, especially as its sentimental...just enjoy shooting it with muffs or plugs...only takes a few seconds to put em in even if hunting...when you are ready get a short lightweight 308 with a DPT and enjoy shooting that too....

sorry mate strongly disagree only takes a few seconds to put plugs in -yeah right - deer gone - bush hunting and that is most of what I have done and its see deer shoot all within seconds - no luxury of put ear plugs in - no not an option - either put a can on it as is or cut it back to 20 inch and a can - for crying out loud its not a Purdey or Holland and Holland or Rigby - its sentimental value continues with or without a can- you lot a carrying on as if its just been lost for good - its a work hunting rifle

Originally Posted by TLB

Scott Traill who is a very well respected gunsmith used to have a few videos of shooting with 10" and 12" 308s he made including shooting deer out to nearly 500 yards with them.

There are 168gr eld factory loads available which are probably more powerful than my reloads so do equally as far. 178gr eld factory loads, 165gr SST loads and 150gr superformance loads all factory that will all most likely do 400 yards on deer out of a 16" 308 barrel. So yup plenty of factory .308 loads. Don't know of a factory 7.62x39 load that I would even consider to shoot a deer with over 200 yards with a 16" barrel in a 7.62x39.
You stated no real world advantage in bush hunting ranges out to 150 metres. I know what I would rather have in my hands out of a .308 and a 7.62x39 on a big roaring red, Sika, Rusa, Wapiti or a Sambar and I can tell you that not many if any hunters would choose the 7.62x39. I can run reduced 130gr loads in the .308 that don't recoil at all and still eat the 7.62x39.

However the discussion was about .270s and the factory eldx load and superformance load will do more than fine out of a 19" barrel with not a significant amount more blast or recoil than a 22"

ahh yes but scott was the first to admit it took a hell of a lot of clicks to do any range and the energy was getting low indeed....

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Listen to Ryan 19 or 20" I wouldn't go shorter in a .270.
The other things you are doing will make this a much more usable rifle that will last you for years.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

I concur
I hate 270 with a passion and would never own one
However I had a mate who was silly enough to buy one against my advice
And chop it to 18” again against my advice I said 20” absolute minimum (looking at the numbers)
We spent alot of time trying to get that thing going properly
And mannaged to turn in into a killer 0-300m bush gun but the original assignment was a 0-700 do all rig shooting the 145 eldx with a vx5 on top it was just never good enough for that

I concur with Ryan’s first comment. But at the end of the day just do whatever you want, barrels after all are a replaceable item and you can always put a new one back on later or change it up again etc. My Dads Sako M591 .308 that he has had since I was in nappies is now chopped to 18” with a dpt, still in its original wood stock and blueing. Still such an awesome classic rifle that’s now a bit more pleasant on the ears.

Your grandad: "suppressors are for pussies"

You: "but a suppressor would look after my hearing grandad!"

Grandad: "WHAT DID YOU SAY!?! YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP. I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Originally Posted by Floundering Around

Your grandad: "suppressors are for pussies"

You: "but a suppressor would look after my hearing grandad!"

Grandad: "WHAT DID YOU SAY!?! YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP. I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one lol

Originally Posted by stagstalker

I concur with Ryan’s first comment. But at the end of the day just do whatever you want, barrels after all are a replaceable item and you can always put a new one back on later or change it up again etc. My Dads Sako M591 .308 that he has had since I was in nappies is now chopped to 18” with a dpt, still in its original wood stock and blueing. Still such an awesome classic rifle that’s now a bit more pleasant on the ears.

A rebarreled rifle is no
Longer original from a collection standpoint if it’s something that is an heirloom or something that could potentially become quite valuable to a collector I don’t really condone cutting them same reason a don’t like hotrods a nicely restored original as possible classic car will always win in my mind
You can always buy a new tikka sako howa for your chop job no need to molest a classic

Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

A rebarreled rifle is no
Longer original from a collection standpoint if it’s something that is an heirloom or something that could potentially become quite valuable to a collector I don’t really condone cutting them same reason a don’t like hotrods a nicely restored original as possible classic car will always win in my mind
You can always buy a new tikka sako howa for your chop job no need to molest a classic

Still kind of off topic though, the question wasn’t really around offering it up to a collector. Plus, let’s say he keeps it original and shoots out the barrel eventually, what then? Barrels don’t last forever and they are a replaceable item (if you use it enough). My Dads other rifle an old Sako Forester 243 falls into this exact category, it shot out the barrel and it needed a new one. Not that hard to put a new one on that looks just like original. Just like a new piston, head, bearing etc in a car.

Plus as per the original post the rifle is already modified in other areas anyway.

Personally I would say there is no harm in getting it threaded for a can and cerakoted. It is your rifle now and it is a hunting rifle at the end of the day. Fundamentally it is a tool, not a display piece.

If it is cerakoted in black or midnight blue will still look relatively authentic and it will have far far better protection from corrosion via moisture than if you left it blued. I like to use my rifles and as far as I am concerned blued rifles perform poorly with regards to weather resistance in NZ conditions; it is simply too rugged and wet here for them. I am getting my old Tikka cerakoted for this exact reason. No matter what I do it still reacts badly to moisture and rusts. This is a problem when you cannot really fully disassemble a rifle in your tent to re-oil and re-grease it 100% properly on a multi-day hunt.

A can also makes the 270win a really pleasant rifle to shoot. I have found a quality suppressor takes the sharpness out of the recoil, allowing you to practice more and become a better shot without flinching. This is good for when you want to move on to bigger cartridges.

As far as chopping the barrel goes, the advantage of the 270win is that it moves quick and flat with a pill big enough to drop any game in NZ with a well-placed shot. Chopping that barrel will result in a drop in velocity which is the primary advantage of a 270win and is specifically what makes it a great 'do-it-all' cartridge for general hunting in NZ. If you do chop it and lose this velocity advantage you may as well just be running a 7mm08 or another 308 based cartridge which recoils less and is cheaper to feed.

At the end of the day it is your rifle, and you need to decide whether you are going to use it frequently or not. If not, then i would say try to pick up another stainless 270win that has already had work done rather than invest money to put your grandas rifle on par with something that is already available with less modification.

Just my 2 cents based upon my experiences with blued 270win rifles lol.