Thread: Kiwi made Howa mini ultralight chassis a reality?

in regards to the comment about screws removing stock and turning into pistol, how is it amy different to a chassis setup with a removable buffer tube?

Originally Posted by Tommy

I can turn pretty well any long gun into a pistol in under a minute with a cheap, simple tool most people have. Le hacksaw. If it ain't shorter than 762mm, it isn't a pistol

Although isn't there other wording relating to being a "pistol" the capacity to be able to be fired single handedly? Hence why folders that don't impede trigger but bring the minimum length under 762mm are still no bueno?

I'm pretty sure I am wrong though

Lets stop trying to debate the issue as to wether its a pistol or a rifle. Pretty sure that some one clever enough to make a bloody good looking chassis system for a popular barrelled action, and then market it, has the nouse to make sure its legal! What I see is a great looking walkabout rifle that I would be keen to try as a PRS type rifle if the mag system allowed heavy for calibre projectiles in the 223, and 10 shot mags. It looks freaking cool, and practical, and I dont like chassis rifles!

Thank you all for you interest.
This chassis came about because no body else made what I wanted.
It has been a 3 year project with all the challenges that came our way in the last couple.
I wanted an ultra lightweight hunting rifle that still performs when needed most. With the gap in the market that AR15s left I wanted a short action that could take its place keeping with the modular theme the ARs are renound for.
I tested CZ 527s, rem model 7s ruger Americans and the Howa mini.
Not only was the howa the lightest and shortest action of the bunch it was also great value and very well made with quality Japanese materials and craftmanship. An easy winner.

Time to trim the fat. The factor howa stock is a little under 1kg which isnt bad but it it is flimsy plastic and I prefer achassis. The lightest chassis available for it at the time was the crappy plastic Excel light which was still the same weight as the factory stock and was like mounting your rifle in jelly.
Other chassis ranged from 1.8 to 2.2 kg which is just too heavy for a hunting rig IMO.

I have a background in Aerospace engineering so my material choices for strength and light weight were instinctual. The design came about by keeping it totally minimalistic and adding features that Iiked on other chassis.
Starting with the butt stock, while the tried and true AR buffer tube stock has many options it isnt the lightest and often leads to bulky and awkward mounting sockets when grafted onto a bolt action chassis. The Sig system was an easy choice over the AR buffer tube.
While the M1913 picatinny stock attachment system is new to many people it is not new to the industry, many SMGs have used this system since about the mid 80s. Personally I think it is a great system and more and more chassis designers are using it. It is very modular and now supported by many other companies. I have worked on with a few other international companies to make the attachment coupling an industry std size so all of our buttstock offerings will fit on each others chassis.

Check out the Sig website for a few of many that bolt straight onto this chassis:

https://www.sigsauer.com/parts/stocks.html

Note: Yes there are folding stocks available to fit this M1913 system but you will need to have a minimum of 20" of barrel as these stocks do not restrict the rifles ability to be fired in the folded position.

I'm not sure why all the fuss with the buttstock being removable as it is no different to any other chassis on the market with cap screws attaching it or a single crown nut on a buffer tube to remove it.
You fit and propper lot all know the rules.. you shorten a rifle in a usable state to less that 30" 762mm then you have broken the law not the rifle maker.

Where the confusion may have been is that my prototype rifle is a takedown. The barrel is first removed, no not like Hardies his is like the desert tech clamping system, my system predates his by about 10 years and has a detent on the front action screw.
After the barrel is removed the rifle is no longer able to be fired (obviously) making it just rifle parts, so then the stock can be removed and it packs down into a small briefcase sized pelican case or laptop bag etc. Its a perfect backpackers rifle.

I have shot this rifle for the past 2 years and it meets and exceeds all of my requirements. It is tough as and super accurate. It has been so much fun to hunt with and puts a smile on the face of everyone that has had the chance to shoot it. I proud to say ot is the lightest Howa chassis on the current market and easily the most modular fitting many of the popular AR accessories.
I look forward to seeing this rifle in the hands of some of you guys and getting your feedback.

Soooo... here's where we are at, the take down version is not yet available as it requires a few specialty parts and some small expensive cnc run of shorter 2 slot fore ends etc. This will come later if there is popular demand.
It was originally intended as more of an international model sold as a complete boxed survival rifle for the likes of Alaskan bush pilots etc.



Yes it can be fitted to the current model for those interest that want to upgrade later.

This first batch is being sold exclusively through the Sika show and will be a total ultra light weight custom rifle build set up to your specific requirements and preferences with all the carbon fiber trimmings etc. Come see us if you are keen and we can quote your custom package.

On the off chance there are any left after the weekend we MAY offer them as a bare chassis only.

The next batch will be available as bare chassis with the carbon butt stock and will also have a few other accessories available such as a carbon bag rider the fits to the accessory mount on the buttstock.
As for price.. the Howa mini rifles are great value for money and I always planned to to keep this chassis system affordable like the rifle, unfortunatly with small cnc runs of custom products along with top grade materials and keeping manifacturing within NZ the manifacturing cost climbs fast.
With that said there is nothing else like this on the current market and it has been forged in quality it's likely to be about a grand for the chassis.

Happy to answer any questions but not taking any orders here sorry. Come see me on the weekend

good on you Bud...
I apologize for asking question, making comment to begin with..the photo just looked so,shall we say??..easy to pervert it to pistol configuration that it popped out. I sincerely hope all the law-abiding folk keep the things in legal configuration .

Originally Posted by Wingman

Thank you all for you interest.
This chassis came about because no body else made what I wanted.
It has been a 3 year project with all the challenges that came our way in the last couple.
I wanted an ultra lightweight hunting rifle that still performs when needed most. With the gap in the market that AR15s left I wanted a short action that could take its place keeping with the modular theme the ARs are renound for.
I tested CZ 527s, rem model 7s ruger Americans and the Howa mini.
Not only was the howa the lightest and shortest action of the bunch it was also great value and very well made with quality Japanese materials and craftmanship. An easy winner.

Time to trim the fat. The factor howa stock is a little under 1kg which isnt bad but it it is flimsy plastic and I prefer achassis. The lightest chassis available for it at the time was the crappy plastic Excel light which was still the same weight as the factory stock and was like mounting your rifle in jelly.
Other chassis ranged from 1.8 to 2.2 kg which is just too heavy for a hunting rig IMO.

I have a background in Aerospace engineering so my material choices for strength and light weight were instinctual. The design came about by keeping it totally minimalistic and adding features that Iiked on other chassis.
Starting with the butt stock, while the tried and true AR buffer tube stock has many options it isnt the lightest and often leads to bulky and awkward mounting sockets when grafted onto a bolt action chassis. The Sig system was an easy choice over the AR buffer tube.
While the M1913 picatinny stock attachment system is new to many people it is not new to the industry, many SMGs have used this system since about the mid 80s. Personally I think it is a great system and more and more chassis designers are using it. It is very modular and now supported by many other companies. I have worked on with a few other international companies to make the attachment coupling an industry std size so all of our buttstock offerings will fit on each others chassis.

Check out the Sig website for a few of many that bolt straight onto this chassis:

https://www.sigsauer.com/parts/stocks.html

Note: Yes there are folding stocks available to fit this M1913 system but you will need to have a minimum of 20" of barrel as these stocks do not restrict the rifles ability to be fired in the folded position.

I'm not sure why all the fuss with the buttstock being removable as it is no different to any other chassis on the market with cap screws attaching it or a single crown nut on a buffer tube to remove it.
You fit and propper lot all know the rules.. you shorten a rifle in a usable state to less that 30" 762mm then you have broken the law not the rifle maker.

Where the confusion may have been is that my prototype rifle is a takedown. The barrel is first removed, no not like Hardies his is like the desert tech clamping system, my system predates his by about 10 years and has a detent on the front action screw.
After the barrel is removed the rifle is no longer able to be fired (obviously) making it just rifle parts, so then the stock can be removed and it packs down into a small briefcase sized pelican case or laptop bag etc. Its a perfect backpackers rifle.

I have shot this rifle for the past 2 years and it meets and exceeds all of my requirements. It is tough as and super accurate. It has been so much fun to hunt with and puts a smile on the face of everyone that has had the chance to shoot it. I proud to say ot is the lightest Howa chassis on the current market and easily the most modular fitting many of the popular AR accessories.
I look forward to seeing this rifle in the hands of some of you guys and getting your feedback.

Soooo... here's where we are at, the take down version is not yet available as it requires a few specialty parts and some small expensive cnc run of shorter 2 slot fore ends etc. This will come later if there is popular demand.
It was originally intended as more of an international model sold as a complete boxed survival rifle for the likes of Alaskan bush pilots etc.

Attachment 209008

Yes it can be fitted to the current model for those interest that want to upgrade later.

This first batch is being sold exclusively through the Sika show and will be a total ultra light weight custom rifle build set up to your specific requirements and preferences with all the carbon fiber trimmings etc. Come see us if you are keen and we can quote your custom package.

On the off chance there are any left after the weekend we MAY offer them as a bare chassis only.

The next batch will be available as bare chassis with the carbon butt stock and will also have a few other accessories available such as a carbon bag rider the fits to the accessory mount on the buttstock.
As for price.. the Howa mini rifles are great value for money and I always planned to to keep this chassis system affordable like the rifle, unfortunatly with small cnc runs of custom products along with top grade materials and keeping manifacturing within NZ the manifacturing cost climbs fast.
With that said there is nothing else like this on the current market and it has been forged in quality it's likely to be about a grand for the chassis.

Happy to answer any questions but not taking any orders here sorry. Come see me on the weekend

F...kn champ. I will be watching with interest. As are likely a fair few.

Given the cost of competing options 1k for the chassis is pretty good value, especially being small batch localy made. Awesome idea man, hope it takes off for you. I can see one of these in my future

Thanks guys.
Heres a little perspective along side a TSPX chassis, Oryx chassis and a factory howa mini stock.
The Rifle in the Elude Ultralight chassis is a 12.5" barreled 6.5 grendel with factory length of pull. It measures 32" OAL without the suppressor. It weighs 3.1kgs as pictured with all accessories. The TSPX chassis at the top weighs 2kg bare!

@Wingman , mate that is super cool. They look amazing..... almost makes me want to buy a Howa ( which I know are great shooters but boring as Bat shit ) .
Hope this venture goes really well and Kiwi shooters get behind it.

@Wingman well done.

Just re: the barrel detaching on the takedown one - will we eventually be able to order one with a stainless receiver that comes with both a .223 and 300 blackout barrel and swap them out as we need?

Originally Posted by 308mate

@Wingman well done.

Just re: the barrel detaching on the takedown one - will we eventually be able to order one with a stainless receiver that comes with both a .223 and 300 blackout barrel and swap them out as we need?

Yes.. technically you could order it now but I'd like to get the first batch cleared first before a run of takedown/ switch barrels.

Originally Posted by Wingman

Thanks guys.
Heres a little perspective along side a TSPX chassis, Oryx chassis and a factory howa mini stock.
The Rifle in the Elude Ultralight chassis is a 12.5" barreled 6.5 grendel with factory length of pull. It measures 32" OAL without the suppressor. It weighs 3.1kgs as pictured with all accessories. The TSPX chassis at the top weighs 2kg bare!

Attachment 209028

Epic mate. So your front takedown screw acts to retain your barrel?

Handled one today. These are a superbly built kiwi product and will be very popular.

@Wingman - have you considered doing a future run of the chassis in a magnesium alloy?

It's a super product already but the additional weight saving would take it to another level.

Originally Posted by Stocky

Epic mate. So your front takedown screw acts to retain your barrel?

Not as such, it doesnt retain it, it just locates the detent to set the head space correctly. The barrel is retained on its std thread.