Thread: legaly speaking....... mini canons?

Originally Posted by FletchNZ

how about pocket cannons, take office warfare to new levels
Mini Cannon - A New Path To Destruction .30 Cal Edition | Artillery

Epic! I am SOOOOO getting one!

Originally Posted by Spanners

So what differentiates a cannon from a rifle?
What If you had a rifled barrel on your cannon

Thats a hard one, to be honest I don't think there is a set definition. If we look at the military conventions as a starting point you have Gun fire and small arms fire. Small arms fire being individual weapons and guns being artillery from machineguns upwards. If you want to get more specific you can look at calibre, in modern terms it seems that anything from 20mm and upwards are called canons, while .50cal, 12.5mm and 14.5mm are still considered machineguns.

Not much help but the technology has changed so much over the centuries that its hard to be specific. In NZ law I don't think the word canon is defined.

Originally Posted by FletchNZ

how about pocket cannons, take office warfare to new levels
Mini Cannon - A New Path To Destruction .30 Cal Edition | Artillery

Haha, I particularly like them blasting the flouro tubes out of the ceiling at the end, classic.

I don't think it is a grey area at all, they are a meet the definition of a firearm in the Arms Act. However I think the arms officers don't see a need to enforce it in regards to cannons, or never come across them. I know I would never worry about it if I caught someone with one and they had a FAL, unless it was obviously made to be held and fired.

Originally Posted by Bryan

Epic! I am SOOOOO getting one!

Group buy? we could even share on black powder and fuse

I saw serious shooters was selling visco fuse a while ago

I could be WAAAY off the mark here but I thought it was.
firearm= something that fires a projectile using an explosive.
And technically speaking black powder doesn't explode it deflagrates (Probably spelt wrong)? something to do with burn rate?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I could be WAAAY off the mark here but I thought it was.
firearm= something that fires a projectile using an explosive.
And technically speaking black powder doesn't explode it deflagrates (Probably spelt wrong)? something to do with burn rate?

Black powder is definately an explosive as opposed to smokeless powder which is a propellant.

Serious Shooters in Auckland sell Cannon grade Black Powder (Goex FFG) and visco fuse.

My reason for asking is I've been wanting to build a 1:4 scale M2 Howitzer for a LOOONG time
I can get a rifled barrel and 4ga shotgun brass is perfect, however its not your average golfball gun..

I got it!

Section 22 of the Arms Act

Exemptions
(1)Nothing in section 20 or section 21 makes it an offence for any person to be in possession of—

(a)any firearm of the kind known as:
(i)a bolt gun or a stud gun:
(ii)a humane killer:
(iii)a tranquilliser gun:
(iv)a stock marking pistol:
(v)an underwater spear gun:
(vi)a flare pistol:
(vii)a deer net gun:
(viii)a pistol that is part of rocket or line throwing equipment:
(ix)a miniature cannon; or

(b)any antique firearm; or

(c)any other make, type, or manufacture of firearm exempted from the provisions of section 20 or section 21 by regulations made under this Act.

(2)It is a good defence to a prosecution for an offence against section 20 or section 21 if the defendant proves,—

(a)in the case of a prosecution relating to the possession of a firearm (not being a pistol or a restricted weapon) by any person,—
(i)that the firearm was in the possession of that person for use under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence; and
(ii)that at all times while that person was in possession of the firearm, that person was under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence; or

(b)in the case of a prosecution relating to the possession of an airgun (not being a specially dangerous airgun),—
(i)that the airgun was in the possession of that person for use under the immediate supervision of either a person of or over the age of 18 years or the holder of a firearms licence; and
(ii)that at all times while that person was in possession of the airgun, that person was under the immediate supervision of either a person of or over the age of 18 years or the holder of a firearms licence.



Arms Act 1983 No 44 (as at 01 October 2012), Public Act – New Zealand Legislation

Yes, it was bugging me.

So where do spud guns fit into this ??

I know John Q. Law was cracking down on those a while back ...




Tim

Spud guns are a firearm, no worries there as long as it is 762mm+, not sure around the legalities of making firearms though.

Originally Posted by Tussock

A cat licence for a spud gun.

I neeeed a cannon.

Tussock

If you or a mate has access to a Lathe and know how to operate it then Make one.

There's nothing special to know if you apply these general rules.

You need to use a good grade of steel for the barrel, mines made out of 4140.

The powder chamber needs to be 1/3 the outside diameter of the barrel in all directions.
My powder chamber is 1" in diameter the barrel is 3" in diameter and theres 2" solid steel behind the barrel with a steel tow ball welded on as the cassabell.

The muzzel outside diameter should be large enough to have at least 3/8" wall thickness remaining after a taper has been applied to the barrel... more is better.

The barrel length can be as short as 2.5 times the diameter of the projectile .... this would be a Mortar or as long as you like within reason.

The projectile diameter must be 39/40ths of the bore diameter to allow for windage when firing.

If the powder chamber is smaller than the bore diameter then the cannon is called a Howitzer.

Ensure the powder chamber is large enough to hold sufficient Black Powder to fire the projectiles of choice, my powder chamber holds 350gr FFg

Use only FFg, Fg or Cannon grade black powder. anything else will see your cannon turn into a pipe bomb.

There's lots more info on the net if your keen.

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by P38

I've built a couple of working cannon now.
This is how it was explained to me
If it's a signal cannon..... ie does not fire a projectile then it's not a firearm.
If it fires a projectile then it's a firearm and can be owned an operated on a standerd firearms licence without any endorsements.



We have a cannon shoot every year at our local gun club.

What's the calibre and how much BP do you load?

Golf Ball calibre 1.680" or 42.67mm

The load varies depending on how far and fast you want the golf ball to go.

In this cannon anywhere from 100gr FFG Black Powder to 350grs FFG Black Powder.

350grs will shoot the golf ball out of sight very quickly.

100grs is good for hitting targets at about 100m.

Originally Posted by P38

Black powder is definately an explosive as opposed to smokeless powder which is a propellant.

Serious Shooters in Auckland sell Cannon grade Black Powder (Goex FFG) and visco fuse.

FFG is not a Cannon powder , except in the small bore minature cannons , in the larger cannons FFG could cause the gun to explode ,FG or Cannon should be used .Blasting powder should never be used as it has cutting wave properties.
There are any number of cannons and Cohorn morters in NZ , the morters and many of the cannons are bored to take a concrete filled beer can which they can fire in excess of 500m, there are also a lot of rifled cannons about ,made with 20mm Orlikon barrels or 40mm Bofors Barrels . My mate as a scale artillery piece in 40mm which will shoot 5 shots into 6" at 100m , the main trouble now is the big ones can cost $20+ per shot in powder alone , without the cost of the cast ball.
You dont need cannon fuse , you can use a linstock with a slow match , the match is made buy soaking cotton sash cord in saltpeter and vinigar , the linstock is just a stick with a hole in the end for the match to go through , the glowing tip is touched to the powder filled touch hole , in saying that a fuse gives you time and distance , which can be nice .
Trevor Marshall in AK makes stunning replica muzzle loading cannon and artillery pieces , you often see him at gunshows .