Thread: Length of a rifle with welded on suppressor?

Originally Posted by Tasbay

A friend sent his Ruger 44mag bolt action to Gunworks and they cut the barrel to 9 inches and put an over barrel suppressor on it. You would hope they know the regulations!. He was somewhat miffed when he got it back as Gunworks had not told him they were shortening the barrel, now stuffed for full house loads.

Thats a shame. Did he talk to them about it?

I'd err on the safe side and assume. E it is to the muzzle. If police choose to "clarify" the policy with an order in council, you will have a very hard time making it legal again.

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

I'd err on the safe side and assume. E it is to the muzzle. If police choose to "clarify" the policy with an order in council, you will have a very hard time making it legal again.

It's a Lithgow 1B single shot that I am looking at shorting myself.
If the lawyer says it's all good and backs that up with a written statement I'll run with it.
If the police later pass it into law (762mm to end of muzzle), then no great loss to destroy said Lithgow.

Permanently putting a Suppressor to the end of a barrel is not necessarily the best idea. The suppressor ends up being the perfect breeding ground or moisture and combined with powder etc residue ends up with the perfect environment for corrosion and no amount of cleaning can help . the reason being the difficulty of cleaning the suppressor.
Up to to you though ,a 22 may? have some immunity ??.

Police 'policy' is not law but the Police only need to suggest it to Parliament and it could be pushed through. At present the law states 'overall length' which can include screwed on items if the firearm is designed for them to be in place for normal operation. A screwed on suppressor would probably not pass that test unless the barrel was ported and normally covered by the suppressor. A welded-on suppressor is definitely part of the overall length.

The 2nd part to the qualifyer for a pistol is "and includes any firearm less than 762mm in length"

Unarguably if its written in legislation even if it is against normal convention for measuring overall length of any other object.

It is arguable when its police policy. Some people might not want the fuss even if police are plain wrong.
I really hope they have retracted the old view of measuring to the muzzle.

Originally Posted by Nugget connaisseur

Thats a shame. Did he talk to them about it?

shouldve talked to them BEFORE it went in.......measure twice n cut once.....that sort of talk......

The term 'overall length' has already been tested in Court and the Judge agreed with me and accepted the it meant the maximum dimension between the two extremities of the firearm and did not have to be measured parallel to the bore. He ruled that Police method of measuring from the front to a point in space opposite the end of the butt does not constitute measuring the 'overall length'.

If you want to cut through the red tape whether the suppressor counts as part of the firearm length...

Cut the barrel so rifle is still >762mm. Counterbore it from the muzzle end but know what you're doing. Put a crown on it with abrasive and a suitable rotating tool. Drill multiple perforations into the counterbored portion of the barrel. Slip a can over this, a fat eccentric one for good looks and maximal effect.

Now the presence or absence of a suppressor has minimal effect on the firearm length and you have an original .22LR de Lisle prototype.

I’m pretty sure a judge ruled In 2018 that a permanent fixture is included in length. Can’t remember the details but it was part of a court case I was involved in over legal definition of length. Nick Taylor would have the info. Outcome may be on his website

Originally Posted by gundoc

Police 'policy' is not law but the Police only need to suggest it to Parliament and it could be pushed through. At present the law states 'overall length' which can include screwed on items if the firearm is designed for them to be in place for normal operation. A screwed on suppressor would probably not pass that test unless the barrel was ported and normally covered by the suppressor. A welded-on suppressor is definitely part of the overall length.

Originally Posted by gundoc

The term 'overall length' has already been tested in Court and the Judge agreed with me and accepted the it meant the maximum dimension between the two extremities of the firearm and did not have to be measured parallel to the bore. He ruled that Police method of measuring from the front to a point in space opposite the end of the butt does not constitute measuring the 'overall length'.

I'm probably still going to phone the firearms lawyer tomorrow just to make sure...but from what I read above it's ok to weld the suppressor onto the rifle so overall total length is 762mm with suppressor. @gundoc is it possible you could PM me the District Court citation number for the case you mentioned above? If you don't have it then just the year and month would be enough for me to find it. I can then present this to the firearms lawyer over the phone and he could advise me from there.
@Cordite your idea is interesting but outside my mechanical skill base. Was an interesting read though about the de Lisle suppressed rifle.

Thanks to all members who gave advise in this tread...a lot of knowledge in this forum.

I'll put a write up on this thread once I have received legal advice, just in case anyone else would like to make this type of legal suppressed .22.

I am away from my records for a few days but will PM you ASAP.

I am first to put my hand up and say I dont know much about it, but I have arc welded a few thing in my day and know things get red hot and its easy to distort things if not careful. Now, I doubt you will be doing that, maybe gas welding? I dont know.

But is welding around a barrel an ok thing to do? Could it not distort, or bulge a bit inside or something bad that could leave it as a useless bit of steel tubing?

Originally Posted by Mr Browning

I am first to put my hand up and say I dont know much about it, but I have arc welded a few thing in my day and know things get red hot and its easy to distort things if not careful. Now, I doubt you will be doing that, maybe gas welding? I dont know.

But is welding around a barrel an ok thing to do? Could it not distort, or bulge a bit inside or something bad that could leave it as a useless bit of steel tubing?

All good with my oxy-acetylene gas setup. I also have a metal working lathe for the crown and threads. It'll be fine (once I settle the legal aspect )

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

762mm IS short....add on what???another 100mm and its still short....I once owned a .12ga that was 785mm....ridiculously short,and LOUD..... mate had stuck barrel into rabbit hole and split barrel.... it was almost dangerous to carry as could swing in one hand and point at feet...no point in slinging it,was below ears.
seriously put tape measure on rifle as it is and see just where the 762mm will be...chances are,right on end of forestock....

When l was working in Africa it was common to have a riot/sawn off shotgun as a backup gun on Leopard hunts for charging ,wounded, in the thick stuff or when hunting over dogs . One crew had a old authentic Luftwaffe drilling, made for the Luftwaffe exclusively by JP Sauer & Sohn ,a survival gun the Germans gave their pilots operating over remote areas of North Africa .From what l remember these Luftwaffe Drillings were fairly rare, .not sure if they were all the same but this one had two 12G shotgun barrels & a 9.3 x 74 rimmed rifle barrel slung under.The shotgun shells were OO Buck & the 9.3 had Geco 250 grn soft points from memory.

This gun had been nearly destroyed from a local tracker deciding to try to shoot some fish for tea & had put the barrel under the water for a better shot ,so for leopard it was cut down to 12 inch barrels & had the sling point right at the muzzle,meaning like you said when carried on the sling you had the barrels rubbing on the back of your ear, every time you ducked under a branch it would hit the nape of your neck .I could not carry it on the sling for this reason & sure enough about a year after l carried it ,the guy who owned it reached around in a hurry to grab it off the sling while crossing a knee deep swamp & some how had a ND ,he was lucky it did not take half his head off ,as it was he had instant Tinnitus in his right ear.Never again for this little black duck.