Thread: Looking for a New Hunting rifle

A lightly used Tikka is almost always the right answer, regardless of the question.

Originally Posted by 16Tontovarish

Nah. Thought about it, but honestly I'm happy enough with it factory, and pretty lazy to boot.

I think there's a guy selling one in the buy sell section here if you're interested in second hand.

I have a great offer from Shooter ready in Cambridge for the same price as that but brand new, so may as well get it new

Hello Kim.
Going back to the OP about a hunting cartridge for NZ.
I have only shot rabbits and possums so cannot speak from experience.
But in the last few years have just got into centerfire cartridges and reloading.
I have been building, restoring and buying and shooting rifles these last few years, lucky I live a place where I can.
I shoot a lot now and have deep dived into cartridges and their history, a very interesting rabbit hole for me.

I don't know, if you know or have heard of a Kiwi bloke called Nathan Forster.
Who is a gun and reloading writer of some repute. - I have all his books.
Also runs the Terminal Ballistics Research website.
The largest and most comprehensive data collection on terminal ballistics that there is.
He also contracts work for some of the major bullet manufactures is USA.
Essentially, I'm talking about achieving clean humane kills on game animals.
Nothing to do with ballistics gel here.

Anyhow, bottom line is he is not confident a 6.5mm bullet can reliably provide this.
Thats not to say it can't be done, it just would not be the 'go-to' first off.
Interestingly his 'hack' rig - the one that goes everywhere, for all around jobs here and there,
is a synthetic stock Remington model 700 chambered in 308.

When I was in my 20's I would probably quite happily of taken risky long range pot shots at game.
In my 50's now. All I am interested in is one shot, one humane kill.
So, dialing in long range shots with environmental variables computed into the mix, I'll leave to chaps like Nathan, who know what they are doing.

6.5mm Creedmoor maybe just what you need.
Personally, I would rather put a .308 in your hands, or a Kiwi favorite the 7mm08

My 2 cent's worth.
Hopefully I have explained enough that I don't get flamed too badly.

Thats bullshit - just one guys opinion
Just go buy a Tikka in 6.5 x 55 or .308 and you'll shoot anything you come across here in NZ. End of story

Originally Posted by Bos

Thats bullshit - just one guys opinion
Just go buy a Tikka in 6.5 x 55 or .308 and you'll shoot anything you come across here in NZ. End of story

Yeah
Ur right Bos
possibly more info than needed, in my message.
A good sprinkling of tangible data.

Just trying to help Kim's OP
As a newbie, just getting the hang of this web site.
I seem to have found the courtesy boundary thanks to Bos.
You old salts, who have shot a lot of game successfully, know way more than me.
I am keen to learn from you, Mr Bos.

So you need a Tikka?
Is that what counts?

Please get this moron removed.

well bobbydazzler I liked your reply - my two cents worth - 6.5 Creedmore is it an adequate caliber for NZ - yes it is - but is it a really good NZ deer caliber no - there are way better - the only advantage I see with it for a new hunter is low recoil - but then a can will knock recoil back - like you I would sooner see him with a 308 or 7mm08 or 7x57 or 270 - bigger hole more blood - but you and I mate will not convince the 6.5 Creedmore brigade because they believe the hype - so I give up on that one - Tikka well I am a dedicated wood blued man so its Shultz and Larsen Victory - Sako Delux - Winchester Super grade - or the early Tikkas wood blued - the new ones to me feel tinny and plastic - but do perform - just not my taste -and there are a whole host of good second hand rifles out there if ya not hung up on weight fluted barrels and all that - my go to rifle an early 788 Remington in .308 why - its a tack holer - basic - steel -holds zero month in month out - and a good trigger - why do I need a new rifle - likely if I did have a Shultz and Larsen it would sit in cubboard be taken out and polished - if I was to go modern and had the budget Fierce maybe Nosler

@bobbydazler love your work! There is an old saying which you, me and some of the older players might know, but the recent generation who are more easily sucked in by advertising hype and marketing, may not have heard, "Let’s not let the FACTS get in the way of a good story” (or marketing campaign).

Back in the 70's - 80's my uncle Steve (from your patch @bobbydazzler - Matapouri Bay) filled my head with stories of his and his mates commercial deer culling days. He told me that although 303 was standard issue at the start, some of the cullers were shooting deer with triple two. He himself owned a Brno Fox twin trigger 22 Hornet and become a living legend in his rohe when he dispatched the biggest pig shot in the area for years. He shot it in the ear, inside the local urupa for the local Maoris who wouldn't kill the pig in the urupa, because the urupa was tapu. My uncle was Italian!

But his advice to me on buying my first deer rifle was this, “But don’t you by a 2 calibre! You buy a big, powerful 30 calibre that will put deer down! Because as a new hunter, you will be shaking like a leaf! The adrenaline will be running through your veins, your knees will be trembling and you'll be lucky to hit the deer in the right place. So you need a rifle that will put the deer down no matter where you hit it!" I give the same advice to @KimMcLeod.

Back then I bought a second hand Alpine 30-06. Alpine is an English branch which is (perhaps) a close cousin to Parker Hale, but cheaper. It had a 4x32 scope and sporting Mauser 98 action with the full length claw extractor. My mates hunted with 7x57, 308. We all shot animals and they all stayed down, mostly, except for the ones we really messed up!

I owned that 30-06 for 40 plus years, I only parted with it about two years ago and here is the important part for Kim.

Two years ago I visited the gunsmith in Kapiti and said, “I’m thinking of selling my 30-06 to buy something with less recoil, which I can suppress to some extent.” His exact words were, “The best all-round calibre for New Zealand hunting is the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. It can fire projectiles from 85grn to 160grn and has shot more bears than any other calibre in the world!”

The following week I bought a second hand, MINT, Schultz and Larsen in 6.5x55 and couldn’t be happier!
@KimMcLeod if world-wide firearms production had ceased at the end of Vietnam War, we would all be hunting with military calibres and we would be completely happy. Here’s a few dates for when military calibres came into being, or into service; 303 British 1888, 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser 1894, 7x57 1895, 30-06 1906, 308 1952, 223 (5.56) 1964. These calibres have a proven pedigree and have kill all manner of game, all over the world. Ammunition and reloading components are both cheap and usually available.

By contrast the 6.5 Creedmoor was released in 2008, has no proven track record, and has excessively high breech pressures, which lead to faster barrel wear. It’s expensive to run and reload. Great for shooting cardboard at huge distances, but it's not a bush bashing gun.

I’ll leave you with a little joke, ‘After a tough day in mountainous bush country, a weary hunter bursts into a hut and throws his rifle on a bunk declaring, “This is a 6.5 Creedmoor, it is the best all-round calibre for New Zealand hunting!” And then the fight started…..’

Do your research and don't get sucked in by the hype.

Most importantly for a new hunter, buy a rifle with a "controlled feed claw extractor!" DONT buy a "push feed rifle" for your first gun. If you don't know the difference, do some research. If the shop attendant at the gun shop doesn't know the difference, go somewhere else!

Cripes. Whats happening here? Ever heard the expression about being "too heavenly to be of any earthly use"??

Funny how every one of these "which rifle" posts always ends up being turned into a calibre contest by the old boys club as soon as someone suggests any calibre created in the 21st century.

Projectile type, speed, and where you put it are all far more important than which calibre rifle its being fired from. Plenty of guys having huge success shooting deer with .223 (boiler room shots/bangflops), yet somehow we think a 6.5mm isnt enough?

7mm08 .308 .30-06 .270 .260 6.5 Creed .303 .243, The list goes on pick a number. All of them are going to do much the same job on an animal at modest distances provided they are using the same projectile type in the same place.

For someone thats a new hunter, far more importance should be put on projectile choice + teaching them to be accurate with chosen rifle & exactly where to put the projectile on the animal, rather than a pissing contest on which calibre to use. All good and well telling them to get a .308 but if the wrong ammo is used & shot placement is bad it doesnt matter which calibre you have its going to be a shit time.

Yep, as I've said a couple of times on this forum:

if you're shooting <200m it literally doesn't matter what you are using.
>200m <600m what you are shooting matters far less than how much you have practiced with it.
>600m go for a goddamn walk you lazy bastard.

in terms of cost, I'm not a reloader but for off the shelf ammo the cheapest soft tip .308 I've seen works out to $1 a shot cheaper than the cheapest 6.5crd. and once you get into the higher end stuff it's basically the same.

you know what, lets compare Ft/Lbs at 500 yards for 6.5 and .308:

from Hornadys website for american whitetail
.308 150grain- 891Ft/Lb drop of 52.3inch
6.5 129grain- 1015Ft/Lb drop of 45.5 inch

do those seem similar? It's because they are there are some minor differences, but for 95% of kiwi hunters it's a wash which one you choose.
the big push for the creedmore was annoying sure, but at this stage the brigade of old men who pop out of the woodwork to croak about the glory of the .308 is almost worse. It's the bloody Holden/Ford drama of the hunting world.

There are 2 types of Hunters:

Those that see their rifles as status symbols, and their egos can not handle the notion that their caliber might not be the best for any particular application.

And those that like to eat venison.

yeah - but its all good fun - the 6.5 boys bite like proverbial sharks - I dont care really what caliber all have good and bad points - I have shot a lot of deer with a .222 would I recommend it no - my .270 absolutely my .308 absolutely - but the rifle- well character- soul even and some semblance of craftsmanship - rather than a computer milled blah - look at an early Sako and one thinks of a room full of craftsmen well people since women did it to all hand checkering Sako stocks - the fit and finish achieved by skilled people rather than a computerized milling machine - steel floor plates not plastic (well some kind of synthetic ) I simply cant stand it when on the forum a new hunter asks for advice and one puts up rifles like the early Tikkas LA 55s and later 695 early Rem 700.s 788 Rem even BRNO,s Winchesters early Rugers all good and then some bugger just cant help himself and yup a Tikka T3 in 6.5 crudmore is the only rifle for NZ wrong and right but not me

Read through this post and thought that I'd add something in favour of the Tikka 6.5 x 55.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuczRU-P_Hw

Funny how some people will recommend a 6.5x55 but hate the modernized and by now much more abundant version of it...

Each to his own. I don't hate any caliber, just stirring the pot a little. The swede is very underrated generally IMO. It is still a very effective round even after all these decades.