Thread: Military style semi automatics, and not-so-automatics, over the years.

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

I understand and agree with what I assume is the broad sweep of your idea:
That Firearms have become more dangerous, not in terms of killing power, but of immediate repeatability.

What I'm interested in is the overall context that this idea fits into. It seems to be part of a supporting argument.

Your submission is your submission, you may not be interested in developing the entire premise of it here.

If you are, pray elucidate, sir.

@Max Headroom

Yes, but the argument has to follow establishing facts. Thanks for criticisms above all of you.


MSSA definition applied to autoloaders which have any of either:
folding stocks - cosmetic, already addressed by legislation defining as a pistol any rifle or shotgun <762mm length.
free standing handle - cosmetic, just the style gone for after manufacturers ditched full length wooden stocks.
mags >7 capacity - some reduction in rate of fire from this, but not a significant reduction. Most mass killings theoretically repeatable with bolt action firearm.
bayonet lug. Cosmetic, addresses no known problem, bayonettings not a known NZ problem.
flash hider - cosmetic (same achievable, arguably better, by small suppressor, muzzle brake or choice of powder)

@mikee and @Shelley have a point - it is about cosmetics, the look of the gun.

The MSSA legislation in essence imposes a cosmetic standard which has little real bearing on how destructive a gun can be. In essence, black guns are a threat to the public but pink guns are not a threat. Well, there is an element of truth to it as pink guns DO look less threatening.. but it is simply a legislation aimed at gun nuts who love war and its paraphernalia - such being the perception of potential mass shooters.

Faster rate of fire - to a point relevant to mass shootings. But with fast firing rate comes lower accuracy, so hence referring to AIMED fire. NO type of cartridge firearm has a slow rate of fire. Muzzle loaders are slow. And the practical gap between bolt actions and autoloaders is in practical terms ... insignificant. They are both fast.

Another thing to bear in mind with e.g. AR15s or Garands' fast rates of fire, it is of little practical significance unless you're terrified at the thought of someone or anyone getting shot 30 times!

Tests are done shooting at a single target -- not in situations where the shooter must identify a new target for each shot. The rate of fire is limited by other than the firearm, whether it is an auto-loader, bolt action, or double-barrel SG matters surprisingly little.

In other words, the police minister should not lose sleep over whether to un-support police in their quest against autoloader part imports. He is responsible for them wasting time and money defending it in court though, but it makes them look busy at least.

I think the key words were ‘aimed shots’
If the E-Cat AR15 is doing 60/min then a 7 round A-Cat would be doing approx 35/min allowing for a 5sec mag change and charging

I’m one of the last baby boomers and quite happy being in the company of Maca49 and the likes

Originally Posted by Steve123

Fuck millienials, Soft cock generation "Y bother" IMHO. The whiny mattress stains were born in the '80s to mid 90's not the 2000's and can't even name themselves properly let alone figure out if there male or female.
My generation was raised on the Dukes of Hazard, Gone in 60 seconds and Cannon Ball run. Real cars, real stunts, 70's mo's and moonshine
And the A team never ran out of ammo.
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I was strolling through the Museum the other day and bumped into a few of your kind. They were adorned with badges/name tags with fancy words on them such as 'Jurassic' and 'Pleistocene'.

Might see you in there sometime soon.

+100 points to anyone who states what rifle they would take into 'battle'

SLR No thinking required. The only option.

Originally Posted by JWB

SLR No thinking required. The only option.

At your side with another one.

Originally Posted by Rushy

At your side with another one.

Bringing up the third rank here.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Bringing up the third rank here.

I'll be different and say H&K G3.

Is the M14 included in this list?

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If its in the bush Id have a 308 semi like an SLR or M1-better for getting through trees or so some of the old buggers who were in 'nam told me anyway
In something a bit more open, a 3 burst type m16 jobbie so I don't go through so much ammo.
Close up in a building a semi 8 shot shotgun or maybe a silenced SMG.
OR if in doubt an SMLE 303 with a bunch of 10 shot mags and not too long a barrel. fast rate of fire, big bullet, quick change magazine and not something I would burn all my ammo up if I got excited

Originally Posted by csmiffy

If its in the bush Id have a 308 semi like an SLR or M1-better for getting through trees or so some of the old buggers who were in 'nam told me anyway
In something a bit more open, a 3 burst type m16 jobbie so I don't go through so much ammo.
Close up in a building a semi 8 shot shotgun or maybe a silenced SMG.
OR if in doubt an SMLE 303 with a bunch of 10 shot mags and not too long a barrel. fast rate of fire, big bullet, quick change magazine and not something I would burn all my ammo up if I got excited

Five shot charger clips perhaps...


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20 shot repeater 1790 ish

Originally Posted by marky123

+100 points to anyone who states what rifle they would take into 'battle'

AK. with a decent sight.

Originally Posted by marky123

+100 points to anyone who states what rifle they would take into 'battle'

AR15 with orange flash hider so I can pretend it's an AirSoft.