Thread: MSSA Overall Length Update

Given the definition of a 'pistol' in the Arms Act (ie. less than 762mm or intended or adapted to be held and fired in one hand regardless of length) then logic would dictate that they are measured in the folded position. The problem arises from the wording of the Act which states the 'overall length'. This has a dictionary definition of the greatest possible dimension of an object (supported by Court precedent) which means the stock would have to be opened to achieve the measurement of 'overall length'. The original method was to measure with stock closed, then Joe Green issued a letter which stated the stock open measurement was to be used (in line with 'overall length' mentioned above). This is yet another example of how stuffed up the legislation is when it is written without the input of those directly affected. As the legislation currently stands then neither view is right or wrong!

Further confusion due to police using and underfolding AK as an example of what an MSSA is - when it would be a pistol under the new definition.

My AO said that he hadn't heard anything and that there would have to be a legislation change in order to change the status quo.

Originally Posted by tararua

Who came up with 762mm overall length? Why not 760mm or 764? Sound like a pin the tail on donkey joke was played when they made this rule. In the US a pistol is "designed to be fired with one hand", even though most handgun shooting is prudently done with two hands.

We all know what is a handgun and what is a longgun. Legislature (not an unelected police comittee) should focus on classification of SMGs like 9mm shorty AR's, krinkov AK's, etc.

The problem is police giving us the run around. Gun owners are normal law abiding citizens who value rule of law, yet get treated like bad children who are up to no good.

I think firearm licensing should be handed over to a new, independent licensing agency using info from the police database. NZPD is obviously too compromised by internal politics and United Nations gun grabbing agenda to be in the democratic interest of New Zealand.

Will be interesting to see what the proliferation of freedom under trump will do to NZ gun politics. I can only hope we elect people who are as gun-friendly next election.

That's my rant done thanks for listening.

You Good sir have hit the nail on the head resulting in excellent penetration! Seriously though couldn't agree more +10 :-)

Originally Posted by systolic

Why don't you just get proper bolt action hunting rifles and not have to worry about overall length, other people not being allowed to use it, or all the other shit that goes on with e-cat guns?

Oh god here we flaming go again...

and can your car exceed the max 100 Km/h speed limit? Does it have a engine size over a certain size? Does it have a turbo? How high is it? What size rims?

Do you own ANY semis? I'm taking a stab in the dark and assuming like many of us your a duck shooter? And chances are you would likely use a semi?

Rant complete

Originally Posted by gimp

"common sense" is the worst label to apply to anything, because generally it means "I haven't thought about this too hard"


Is there a major problem with E endorsed FAL holders stowing rifles under seats currently?

I have no idea it was just an example. My point being is that it seems pointless to have it the other way around

I think its vital all shooters on this forum be it a bolt action only lover or keen duck hunter, it doesn't matter. We all need to work together & support each others sport from all disciplines of shooting including the ever-growing league that is MSSA's.

Lets honestly pretend in a parallel universe that it wasn't E-cat firearms under scrutiny but in fact it was say, bolt actions. Lets pretend that the reason they are extremely dangerous and need more legislation because they're infact "sniper rifles" and to own one you need a S-cat and nothing more then .308

Without a doubt in the above universe ^^^ I wouldn't just stand on the sidelines with my regular old AR, no one will bother me attitude. I would and that's a serious would stick up for our rights

Originally Posted by systolic

Why don't you just get proper bolt action hunting rifles and not have to worry about overall length, other people not being allowed to use it, or all the other shit that goes on with e-cat guns?

I hope your trolling

Aside from the current issue of stock extended/collapsed measurement, I think one point that needs to be challenged is the 'policy' of not including any muzzle devices when measuring overall length. The Arms Act defines a 'Part' for an MSSA as being

any thing, such as a butt, stock, magazine, SILENCER, or sight, which, while not essential for the discharge by a pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm of any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile, is designed or intended to be an integral part of a pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm



Surely if a silencer is legislatively defined as an integral part of an MSSA (or pistol), then it needs to be included in any overall length measurement.

When they retort that a silencer can be removed, point out that a butt/stock can also be removed, yet it is included in length measurements.

Legislation is written by morons, you see

You are of course talking about lawyers.

Originally Posted by res

I hope your trolling

Who let the trolls out WHO WHO WHO !!!
Who let the trolls out WHO WHO WHO !!!
Who let the trolls out WHO WHO WHO !!!

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Who let the trolls out WHO WHO WHO !!!
Who let the trolls out WHO WHO WHO !!!
Who let the trolls out WHO WHO WHO !!!

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

Oh god here we flaming go again...

and can your car exceed the max 100 Km/h speed limit? Does it have a engine size over a certain size? Does it have a turbo? How high is it? What size rims?

Do you own ANY semis? I'm taking a stab in the dark and assuming like many of us your a duck shooter? And chances are you would likely use a semi?

Rant complete

Your rant about cars makes no sense. Or not that I can see anyway.

If he brought a proper hunting rifle in a proper hunting calibre like 7mm08 or above, he might not need a 20 or 30 round magazine on his 'hunting' assault rifle.

If the weedy fellow needs a lightweight rifle he could buy a Kimber Montana. Or a gym membership.

Not sure if deliberately obtuse or stupid