Thread: New Defence Force rifles need firing pins replaced

yes and no...... wounded guys can still shoot back. if youve ever seen what a tumbling .223 round does when it hits flesh (as the origonal design called for them to do) it sort of blows that whole theory out of the water...... the yellow packet norinco .223 make a hell of a mess of wallaby sized game...can see the resistance level being much more. Ive skinned out wallabies with holes big enough to stick your whole arm in using them.... and if you watch the way some people shoot it would be just as dangerous to not be what they were aiming at.... accurate is only as good as the plonker pointing the thing LOL.

I once talked to a guy who was ex British army, must've left around the time they were changing from SLR to L85. He had his doubts about the power of the 5.56 round.

His verdict:"I don't like this idea of shooting people gently"

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

I once talked to a guy who was ex British army, must've left around the time they were changing from SLR to L85. He had his doubts about the power of the 5.56 round.

His verdict:"I don't like this idea of shooting people gently"

nobody in thier right mind would claim the 5.56 is BETTER than the 7.62 (.223 Vs .308) and the SLR is a proven preformer....you could say same thing of the .303 brit the preceded it too. 100rounds of .223 is easy to carry as its small and light....... the other two,not so much.

Re the .223-round, it was chosen for a bunch of reasons mentioned here already; to wound as mentioned;and tie-up more resources, again as mentioned ,for weight of ammo and ability to carry more, plus a lot of pressure from other countries to standardise (for obvious reasons). I dont think they even considered the long-range effect of tumbling projo's, on size of wound-channels etc., as pointed-out on here also. There was a general mindset, that conflicts were going to be more close-up and personal (fek knows why) and they got proved wrong in the Middle-East, with longer range needed. It surprises me that they've stayed with the caliber, as they were openly discussing the need to go back to a larger caliber. Other countries have already done just that, I guess they dont want to turn up at a "Venue", with the Wrong-Bat

Originally Posted by rewa

Re the .223-round, it was chosen for a bunch of reasons mentioned here already; to wound as mentioned;and tie-up more resources, again as mentioned ,for weight of ammo and ability to carry more, plus a lot of pressure from other countries to standardise (for obvious reasons). I dont think they even considered the long-range effect of tumbling projo's, on size of wound-channels etc., as pointed-out on here also. There was a general mindset, that conflicts were going to be more close-up and personal (fek knows why) and they got proved wrong in the Middle-East, with longer range needed. It surprises me that they've stayed with the caliber, as they were openly discussing the need to go back to a larger caliber. Other countries have already done just that, I guess they dont want to turn up at a "Venue", with the Wrong-Bat

I guess you can't argue with the weight and capacity arguments. But everything is a trade off, ever carried 200 rounds of 5.56 link??? Well 7.62 link is a shit load heavier but if some sod is trying to RPG you from 800 m I bet you will be glad you brought that and not the 5.56.

Why is it this "Wounding " myth keeps rearing its ugly head ? . Sheer logic shows it to be a load of rubbish . If you win a battle , and gain the field , do you not end up with all ( or most ) of the wounded enemy and therefore lumbering the victor with the burden of their care ?????? .

Originally Posted by Tankd

Why is it this "Wounding " myth keeps rearing its ugly head ? . Sheer logic shows it to be a load of rubbish . If you win a battle , and gain the field , do you not end up with all ( or most ) of the wounded enemy and therefore lumbering the victor with the burden of their care ?????? .

Haha and if you "Wound" someone with their finger on a suicide belt button.

Originally Posted by Tankd

Why is it this "Wounding " myth keeps rearing its ugly head ? . Sheer logic shows it to be a load of rubbish . If you win a battle , and gain the field , do you not end up with all ( or most ) of the wounded enemy and therefore lumbering the victor with the burden of their care ?????? .

yeah it still confuses me.

223 was supposed to tumble on impact till the twist rate was cahnged and turned it into a needle shooter. the 'wound' excuse was to cover uip the stuff up. reality is a wounded solider will come back a bit smarter. a dead solider stays dead.

The days of gentlemanly warfare have changed in the last 20 years
The Geneva convention was signed in the days of people playing tag I’m out rather I’m going to get you anyway tag away we have now in a lot of conflicts - the ideas of wounding and extra resources don’t apply

Replace the MARs firing pins by replacing the entire upper with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BDyA6I2Ovk
Sh#t while we're at it may as well put a Geissele trigger in as well

The wounding "idea " probably was more a result of the turn of the 19 th century . Whereby people where supposedly "Enlightened " as to humanity , and there was an attempt to enshrine it into the Hague Convention ? . Unfortunately they found that spitzer projectile tumbled on impact after having to discard there soft points .
I love the " The days of gentlemanly warfare have changed in the last 20 years " , the reason Gentlemen , officers , where introduced to Warfare was to limit the killing by bringing some order to the so called soldiers who where generally made up from the dregs and prisons . Some Officers feared their men more than the enemy .

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

I’m not sure your understanding of BC is as strong as you think it is.

Drag is drag so it’s entirely accurate to state that a flat base spitzer will lose velocity and energy faster than a boat tail.

Drag is a drag, but so is the friction / resistance of the air, which is greater the faster the bullet goes. My understanding is that a really pointy design will have less frictional resistance. As the bullet slows to subsonic speed it is the force of gravity that has more effect and all bullets are about the same because of time of flight is the same.

On a more important note where can I buy one of the ex service Steyrs ??

They should have gone to a proven military sized company ? , not a small custom shop , they donot have the experience of the bigger/older arms companies , ie FN , HK , Sig Colt Canada .

From contact on the 'ground', a small batch of pins were incorrectly heat treated, so instead of suck it and see the whole lot are being replaced gratis. Those bigger companies still make the same sort of mistakes but will just say 'so what?' On the world stage NZ's requirements are less then some private security companies.
Oh and the reason for the 1:7 twist is for the 223 tracer round.

Originally Posted by Walker

From contact on the 'ground', a small batch of pins were incorrectly heat treated, so instead of suck it and see the whole lot are being replaced gratis. Those bigger companies still make the same sort of mistakes but will just say 'so what?' On the world stage NZ's requirements are less then some private security companies.
Oh and the reason for the 1:7 twist is for the 223 tracer round.

Dam that's right 1:7 twist is for tracer. Twist is about the length of the bullet.