Thread: New scope

Hey guys, recently scored a nice scope for a few hundred. It’s a vortex diamondback tactical in 4-16x44 (MRAD). Just got a question, never used a scope with the turrets on it, I’m a little confused at what I’m looking at I’ll be honest, is their any dummy guides to help understand it. Before this I used a Burris 3-9x40 (MOA) which I never changed the distance on I just shot from the same distance.
Also would this scope be to over the top for a 308.

Thanks team, look forward to hearing from yas 👍

Originally Posted by SimpleHunter12

Hey guys, recently scored a nice scope for a few hundred. It’s a vortex diamondback tactical in 4-16x44 (MRAD). Just got a question, never used a scope with the turrets on it, I’m a little confused at what I’m looking at I’ll be honest, is their any dummy guides to help understand it. Before this I used a Burris 3-9x40 (MOA) which I never changed the distance on I just shot from the same distance.
Also would this scope be to over the top for a 308.

Thanks team, look forward to hearing from yas ��

By turrets to you mean exposed turrets that can be adjusted without undoing the turret caps? If it is the case then these are generally used with a rangefinder when shooting longer distances, and the scope can be dialed in so you don't need to hold over for drop. It is simpler than it sounds once you start using it. Some people carry a chart, others memorise a chart, and some have dials that have the distances etched in for the cartridge they use.

4-16 is not over the top for a .308 per se. It is more a question of whether it is over the top for the type of hunting you do, if you are taking regular shots at more than 200yd and you don't spend much time sneaking around in the scrub, then this is about right, if you mostly hunt in close scrub and bush, you may find that this scope is over the top.

Easiest way for me to get my head around it was going from 100meters/yards and going to 1000m/y

1mil @ 100m is 10cm. Mil is divided into 0.1 clicks so 1 click equals 1 cm @ 100m. At every 100m 1mil will add another 10cm (1mil @ 1000m will be 100cm, 1 click will equal 10cm @ 1000m). This makes the math easy as it is a base 10 system

1moa @ 100y is near 1inch to simplify (2.54cm). MOA is divided into 0.25 clicks so 1 click equals 0.635cm @ 100y ( 1moa @ 1000y will be 10.5 inch, 1 click will equal 2.63 inch @ 1000y). Moa is more accurate, however to math needed to call correction as its in 1/4inch takes my brain a while

The thing i got hung up on while reading up on things was that 1Mil/Moa does not change but the measurement of that 1mil/moa does.

Best thing to do with a dial scope is to get and app like Strelok and produce a gun profile. This will give you a guide as to what adjustments to dial for certain ranges, be sure to verify/change these if necessary. However you can with a first focal plane scope you can use the stadia to hold as it will have Mils marked on the reticle. Good habit to do is dial for distance, hold for wind.

As a rough explanation/demonstration of how it works.

If your rifle is zeroed for 100m and you see a deer at 250m, you line up on the deer and take your shot. When the .308 bullet arrives at the deer, it will have dropped about 25cm or more.

To account for the above, you can aim 25cm higher than where you want to hit (this is easy if the deer has a ruler taped to it but you won't see many deer that have this), or you can dial up, which is basically adjusting your sights on the fly for that particular shot.

to come up 25cm at 250m you need to come up 1MRAD/Mil (about 3.5MOA in the old money), if you scope clicks equal 0.1MRADs/Mil, then you dial up 10 clicks to be able to point and shoot with no hold over.

In theory just about all scopes can do this, but the ones with clicks work better, and the ones where you don't have to undo the turret caps potentially loosing them, work better again.

Hey thanks for the reply. Yeah exposed turrets, only used capted. So these charts do they have like the amount of clicks up needed for a certain distance?. Yeah I’m probably more likely to be shooting out to a hundred to a couple hundred meters.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by SimpleHunter12

Hey thanks for the reply. Yeah exposed turrets, only used capted. So these charts do they have like the amount of clicks up needed for a certain distance?. Yeah I’m probably more likely to be shooting out to a hundred to a couple hundred meters.

Thanks.

You bascially need to make your own chart, the old way is to shoot at different distances on the range and measure the amount of drop, this is ammuntion intensive. I still do it this way for a .22, but it can get expensive with a centrefire.

The other way is to use an app, this will give you some idea but you will still want to verify the numbers on the range.
Shooting through a chrony and getting a true velocity of your projectile will give the app a more accurate prediction than just putting in the numbers you read off the box of cartridges.

In saying that, if you let us know what breed and weight of bullet you are shooting, I can give you a rough chart right now.

Originally Posted by SimpleHunter12

Yeah I’m probably more likely to be shooting out to a hundred to a couple hundred meters.

Then forget about your new exposed dialable turrets.
Treat this new scope like your old capped turret scope and just zero your .308 1 1/2" high at 100y/m.
Don't touch your turrets again, just aim and shoot out to the 'couple hundred meters'.
You would ideally need to purchase a rangefinder if you go past 250/300m and then you can get into dialing the turrets.

Hey, it’s Winchester PowerPoint subsonic, 185 grain

Originally Posted by longshot

As a rough explanation/demonstration of how it works.

If your rifle is zeroed for 100m and you see a deer at 250m, you line up on the deer and take your shot. When the .308 bullet arrives at the deer, it will have dropped about 25cm or more.

i'd be a little bit concerned if my 308 was dropping 25cm (9 inches) at 250 yds

maybe 7-8 cm (3-3.5 inches)
micky ducks chart is a great reference for those with your bog standard non dialling scope

Easiest way I've used for hunters transitioning from a "standard" scope to a dial scope is to shoot a simple tall target, record the results and transfer those drops to your app, or a piece of paper, or write it on the side of the butt etc etc. First zero your rifle at whatever distance you feel comfortable with, usually 100. However this may need to be less with subs. Use a target that is about 1.5 metres tall, big sheet of paper on a pallet works great. Then either move back 50 metres or move the same target forward 50 metres and fire another 5 shot group without changing your scope. Then either move back another 50 metres or move the same target forward and shoot another 5 shot group. Rinse and repeat out to as far as you feel comfortable shooting.

After that nice little shooting session, measure each of your drops from the centre of your target to the centre of each group, and if your scopes in mil, then measure in cm. This is now your real time data, with that particular load in that particular rifle. No need for a chrono, no need for an app. Write it somewhere thats handy and durable, and use a rangefinder if you are shooting beyond what you would use a zero hold.

And then to verify you've got it right get a clean target, set it up at one of your longer recorded distances, dial your scope the appropriate number of mil you got from your tall target test, and send a couple of shots down range and you should be on the button. Mil scopes are usually very easy, the numbers are usually for 1mil, 2mil, 3mil etc. The graduations between are 1cm. If your zeroed at 100 metres and your tall target test showed that you are hitting 20cm low at 200, thats 1mil, and if youre 30cm low at 300, thats still 1mil. Easy peasy

Originally Posted by Husky1600#2

Easiest way I've used for hunters transitioning from a "standard" scope to a dial scope is to shoot a simple tall target, record the results and transfer those drops to your app, or a piece of paper, or write it on the side of the butt etc etc. First zero your rifle at whatever distance you feel comfortable with, usually 100. However this may need to be less with subs. Use a target that is about 1.5 metres tall, big sheet of paper on a pallet works great. Then either move back 50 metres or move the same target forward 50 metres and fire another 5 shot group without changing your scope. Then either move back another 50 metres or move the same target forward and shoot another 5 shot group. Rinse and repeat out to as far as you feel comfortable shooting.

After that nice little shooting session, measure each of your drops from the centre of your target to the centre of each group, and if your scopes in mil, then measure in cm. This is now your real time data, with that particular load in that particular rifle. No need for a chrono, no need for an app. Write it somewhere thats handy and durable, and use a rangefinder if you are shooting beyond what you would use a zero hold.

And then to verify you've got it right get a clean target, set it up at one of your longer recorded distances, dial your scope the appropriate number of mil you got from your tall target test, and send a couple of shots down range and you should be on the button. Mil scopes are usually very easy, the numbers are usually for 1mil, 2mil, 3mil etc. The graduations between are 1cm. If your zeroed at 100 metres and your tall target test showed that you are hitting 20cm low at 200, thats 1mil, and if youre 30cm low at 300, thats still 1mil. Easy peasy

Hey, thanks for the reply. This has really simplified it and made it a bit less confusing. One question, when u said “may have to be less with subs” why is that exactly.

Thanks

Depends on what range your average shot is, or at what range you prefer to sight in. Until I see the ballistics Im just assuming a sub sonic 185 gn projectile may be dropping rather rapidly so a 50 metre zero might be more suitable. Or if youre comfortable with your rifle sighted at 100 and know where its at for 50, then stay at 100.

Just had a quick look at some charts - sighted in for 100 metres its approx 11cm high at 50. Personally I'd be sighting in at 100 and just aiming approx 10cm low at 50, easy to remember. Then it drops 38 cm at 150 mteres which is 2.5mil, and 104 cm low at 200, which is 5.2mil.

[QUOTE=Husky1600#2;1597323]Depends on what range your average shot is, or at what range you prefer to sight in. Until I see the ballistics Im just assuming a sub sonic 185 gn projectile may be dropping rather rapidly so a 50 metre zero might be more suitable. Or if youre comfortable with your rifle sighted at 100 and know where its at for 50, then stay at 100.


Hey, yeah I’ll probably just stick with 50 zero. Do factory rounds tend to act different compared to reloaded rounds

With a 50 metre zero, it should be about 22cm low at 100, ie 2.2 mil, 70cm low at 150, ie 4.7 mil, and 148cm low at 200, ie 7.4 mil. Factory rounds may very well perform the same as reloaded rounds if they are both doing the same speed. But theres only one surefire way to find out and thats try both.

Seeing that your mv is around 1000 fps, you will need to either dial or actively hold over past 50m. bush hunting would be ok but in the open you would need a range finder.

Remember that your muzzle energy will be only 5x a subsonic 22LR. Perhaps you could try some 22 field target to get an idea how far you should shoot.


There are some excellent advice already posted above, here (liked).