Thread: The next flop?

Originally Posted by Happy Jack

They have partnered with Savage for rifles

That sounds like the kiss of death

Hard to shake off the budget Savage image

Originally Posted by akaroa1

That sounds like the kiss of death

Hard to shake off the budget Savage image

I read Savage are only one of several Federal have lined up for the caliber.

(whoops, as above)

So who's crunched the numbers on the speed, powder type required, burn rate and projection on realistic barrel life ?

All the reasonable known barrel life projection data is based on 60k psi or thereabouts
It might be safe to assume there is an exponential increased decay at 80k psi

Originally Posted by Happy Jack

They have partnered with Savage for rifles

As a budget option
Sounds like they have also got some very high end “factory custom” makers on board aswell

The numbers that backfire was getting is impressive all most
Amost 200fps more than my 7RM out of a 4” shorter barrel than my rem mag

What's the ammo going to cost in NZ ?

Can you get dies and suitable powder to equal factory ballistics ?

Originally Posted by akaroa1

What's the ammo going to cost in NZ ?

Can you get dies and suitable powder to equal factory ballistics ?

I spend an easy 5000$ plus into my hunting each year, gas,travel, upgrading gear etc ( im only on disability(23,000per year) and 150$ pw part-time work) yeah so when i buy ammo at 110$ for 20 that lasts me 2 sight in sessions and 10 animals minimum on the ground it mean NOTHING at all its the absolute minimum cost when everything is taken into account gas, vehicle costs, food, fuel, gas cannisters, ice, missed income from time off from paying work its a shitload more then the 1 or 2 bullets fired at 5$ each to secure the meat, trophy - animals taken so even if they are 15$ a shot who gives a shit still the cheapest part of the equation

Originally Posted by Carbine

I spend an easy 5000$ plus into my hunting each year, gas,travel, upgrading gear etc ( im only on disability(23,000per year) and 150$ pw part-time work) yeah so when i buy ammo at 110$ for 20 that lasts me 2 sight in sessions and 10 animals minimum on the ground it mean NOTHING at all its the absolute minimum cost when everything is taken into account gas, vehicle costs, food, fuel, gas cannisters, ice, missed income from time off from paying work its a shitload more then the 1 or 2 bullets fired at 5$ each to secure the meat, trophy - animals taken so even if they are 15$ a shot who gives a shit still the cheapest part of the equation

In fairness to play devils advocate, if people dont shoot a bunch to the point where ammo costs dont matter do they have any business wanting calibers that realistically only benefit them beyond the range they practiced and are competent too? ie what improvement does this give most guys that they could utilize vs say a 7mm08.

A big boomer does not make one a marksman if fact the opposite may be true.

Originally Posted by Stocky

In fairness to play devils advocate, if people dont shoot a bunch to the point where ammo costs dont matter do they have any business wanting calibers that realistically only benefit them beyond the range they practiced and are competent too? ie what improvement does this give most guys that they could utilize vs say a 7mm08.

A big boomer does not make one a marksman if fact the opposite may be true.

i get that to a point but add up what you spend on everything related to actually pulling the trigger its still fuckall in the whole equation. And realistically im on under 30k a year in income and spend at least 5k so that's about 20+% of all money earned so if your on 120k a year do you spend 20 - 30K plus on hunting? Ive got a long range setup for high country work and it would only use 20 rounds a year as i've got private land access to shoot deer on so only use my 300 win mag to shoot what's not on the farm chammie, tahr and big stags hopefully. if you look at this as say recently the 7mm PRC craze 2-6000 dollars rifles getting purchased then scopes suppressors etc not much change from 6000-10,000 rifle setups so it will be the same cost at getting a new 7mmBackCountry so who cares if ammo is 200$ for 20 rounds when you've spent so much on your setup? are you going to shoot say 200 rounds a year at 2000$ and then complain about ammo cost when if it was say a 308 at 100$ for 20 thats a 1/2 the price - sort of like buying a high end car and moaning about the cost of 100 octane

and as far as should you be buying to shoot further its what 80+% of all us hunting have done in the past as you need'ish a magnum to shoot further to get the wapati across the valley or the Tahr across the ridge, learn to shoot longer range then your 308 or latte drinking 7mm08 can do with enough power to put em down. If i didn't have a 300 win mag i wouldn't shoot the backcountry with my 18" 308 past 400m because thats what the boomers are for and you only get experience by doing it and using it and to get to a point where i could use the 308 to say 700m reliably would take to much time and trips away and costs so i just use the magnum to my ability and slowly stretch it out further and further as i shoot it more often and know from using it in the scenarios what it can and cant do. And we all know of youtube channels in nz that use magnums ands non magnums to shoot long range and promote themselves but i know from people who know them how many animals they wound and loose from not using a suitable enough caliber for the range they shoot and trademe is filled with for sale long range setups that would do the job if the shooter was capable of using at distance

Originally Posted by Stocky

In fairness to play devils advocate, if people dont shoot a bunch to the point where ammo costs dont matter do they have any business wanting calibers that realistically only benefit them beyond the range they practiced and are competent too? ie what improvement does this give most guys that they could utilize vs say a 7mm08.

A big boomer does not make one a marksman if fact the opposite may be true.

Having been called an old Fudd on occasions, I see a realistic benefit from this development for what I look for in a cartridge. At the distances I can realistically shoot too and stick within, which is around 400 meters. I can pass up the opportunity of using the high BC heavies in a new cartridge like this, and go for the 155gr load. Or if it's reloadable, a 140gr load even better. No need for any special scope turrets or reticle, just a bog standard cross, and no need to hold over or ballistics chart out to 400m

To summarise, the improvement for me, would be simplicity.

Originally Posted by Stocky

In fairness to play devils advocate, if people dont shoot a bunch to the point where ammo costs dont matter do they have any business wanting calibers that realistically only benefit them beyond the range they practiced and are competent too? ie what improvement does this give most guys that they could utilize vs say a 7mm08.

A big boomer does not make one a marksman if fact the opposite may be true.

Men* buy guns for many more reasons than shooting

Conspicuous consumption
Mood affiliation
Keeping up with the Jones
Curiosity
Wanting to prove something/somebody wrong

I ain't saying it's right but it's a thing


*Women aren't generally as stupid as men

The case design could be an innovation in the market if applied to cartridges more useful than a 7mm magnum style. Lots of questions to be answered about practical use. Could be interesting in concept.

Originally Posted by gimp

The case design could be an innovation in the market if applied to cartridges more useful than a 7mm magnum style. Lots of questions to be answered about practical use. Could be interesting in concept.

Yep imagine if we could fill a 7.62x39 base (6.5 Grendel,6 arc) case up with fast pistol powder to sky rocket the pressures and get a 130-140gn doing 6.5 creedmoor velocities or better

Could make for some mighty compact rifles (howa mini size action for example )that will match much bigger rigs that use the older technology
The case technology is certainly very interesting
Watch this space

Originally Posted by gimp

The case design could be an innovation in the market if applied to cartridges more useful than a 7mm magnum style. Lots of questions to be answered about practical use. Could be interesting in concept.

steel cased 223 3000fps with a 75 in a stubby barrel

Originally Posted by Stocky

steel cased 223 3000fps with a 75 in a stubby barrel

You can do that with a 22" barrel now. So not a huge gain. My 74 Targex are 2970 fps from a 20". Or are you thinking 3k from a 16" barrel?

Originally Posted by Tahr

You can do that with a 22" barrel now. So not a huge gain. My 74 Targex are 2970 fps from a 20". Or are you thinking 3k from a 16" barrel?

Your 74s might be doing 3k from 13 or 14 at 80000psi!