Thread: Redundant Calibres

hmmm so its basically a 7.7mm/08 nearly identicle just slightly fatter...one would guess the .310 projectiles made for the x39mm could be used as well as the usual .312 stuff....
definately useful.

7.65 on the left 308 on the right both loaded with 150 gr.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

hmmm so its basically a 7.7mm/08 nearly identicle just slightly fatter...one would guess the .310 projectiles made for the x39mm could be used as well as the usual .312 stuff....
definately useful.

303-08

I've got a 30/303 Ross rifle apart from the open sights issue, i.e me at a 100 yards it's iffy but at 50 holes through holes

Originally Posted by john m

7.65 on the left 308 on the right both loaded with 150 gr.
Attachment 214631

Greetings,
This was the first Mauser smokeless cartridge coming out in 1889. The 7.92x57 was not a Mauser cartridge.
GPM.

Another redundant setup.

Old cartridge,full stock accuracy problems,old 4 power scope can't see the target.



POA was the black square lower right.

308 on right.

Originally Posted by Cigar

That's a bit of a grey area as far as I can tell, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. The description of a sabot round in the actual law said something along the lines of "designed for increased penetration" and I can't see how a soft point .224 projectile fired from a 30 cal meets that description. But a judge may see it differently to me!

Would have thought a big issue other than penetration would be identification. If someone uses a 6mm sabot shot from a 30 cal rifle how does forensics identify the rifle it was shot from?

I tried the 224 sabots in 3006.
Rubbish accuracy.
Shot one hare at 40m.
Impressed the rellies with their 22s.

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by gundoc

The whole rationale behind the 'Prohibited Ammunition' law seems to be their fear of someone shooting at the Police with ammo that will penetrate vests. The wording of the legislation about saboted ammo is a bit vague and seems to be able to cover all saboted rifle & pistol ammo. I suspect their fear there is the lack of evidential striations on recovered projectiles which would prevent forensic ballistic evidence being usable in a prosecution. All of the above tends to indicate they may be afraid of the public!

Still don't understand that rationale. The vest is only good if the person shooting at you is nice enough to shoot you in the vest, and even then anything you will likely find being used for deer in NZ will go straight through a standard Police-issue vest. I would be more concerned with the new fangled frangible lead-free hunting ammo designed to split into several chunks after penetrating a good amount. My understanding is that this type of ammo can end up without much in the way of useful stuff for the forensics as well. As far as sabots, shotgun slugs? Every test I've seen on those is fearsome levels of penetration...

Originally Posted by No.3

Still don't understand that rationale. The vest is only good if the person shooting at you is nice enough to shoot you in the vest, and even then anything you will likely find being used for deer in NZ will go straight through a standard Police-issue vest. I would be more concerned with the new fangled frangible lead-free hunting ammo designed to split into several chunks after penetrating a good amount. My understanding is that this type of ammo can end up without much in the way of useful stuff for the forensics as well. As far as sabots, shotgun slugs? Every test I've seen on those is fearsome levels of penetration...

There were accounts of the SV99 being used in Kosavo / Sarajevo with lethal effect against body armour and when it states 5.56 for calibre note that below it is 5.56LR (22LR) . Accuracy meant shot placement at the urban distances was able to 'bypass' body armour - Also worth noting the Russian military 22L ammo has a velocity approaching our 22WMR energy.And they wont sell it even if they were allowed to....
https://en.kalashnikovgroup.ru/catal...vintovka-sv-99

Originally Posted by timattalon

There were accounts of the SV99 being used in Kosavo / Sarajevo with lethal effect against body armour and when it states 5.56 for calibre note that below it is 5.56LR (22LR) . Accuracy meant shot placement at the urban distances was able to 'bypass' body armour - Also worth noting the Russian military 22L ammo has a velocity approaching our 22WMR energy.And they wont sell it even if they were allowed to....
https://en.kalashnikovgroup.ru/catal...vintovka-sv-99

"Bypass body armour" is a euphanism for anywhere in the head...

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

..there are three parts to it... how fast bullet is being driven, how fast its being spun and how hard/stout/soft/fragile the make up of bullet/projectile itself

@Micky Duck, You're overthinking that a little - the only real part to it is the end part and then matching the bullet to the velocity required and the terminal performance needed. Then the bit about selecting the twist rate to stabilise and making sure the entire package is feasible and obtainable i.e. barrels in the required twist rate.

Example there is using a .22Hornet rabbit bullet in a high speed .22 centerfire is going to produce interesting results, explosive is one potential word. On the other hand, a .220 Swift varmint bullet makes a handy penetrating bullet in a .22Hornet, good for slipping into the neck/head of fallow and goats. Both barrels seem to run similar twist rates, the only real difference is horsepower behind the pill. The other 'fourth factor' missing from your list is barrel length, which governs how fast you can drive the pills everything else being equal.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Would have thought a big issue other than penetration would be identification. If someone uses a 6mm sabot shot from a 30 cal rifle how does forensics identify the rifle it was shot from?

no different to a shotgun....... and really unless the firearm of interest is found ,all the rifling in the world makes no difference to end conviction.

Originally Posted by Cigar

That's a bit of a grey area as far as I can tell, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. The description of a sabot round in the actual law said something along the lines of "designed for increased penetration" and I can't see how a soft point .224 projectile fired from a 30 cal meets that description. But a judge may see it differently to me!

No grey area. Refer to legislation which is very clear.
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regu...html#LMS214867

Enhanced penetration and discarding sabot ammunition are two separately prohibited ammunition types.

Originally Posted by Makros

No grey area. Refer to legislation which is very clear.
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regu...html#LMS214867

Enhanced penetration and discarding sabot ammunition are two separately prohibited ammunition types.

I see the Sabot restriction excludes shotgun rounds so you are allowed shotguns to be saboted rounds.


I like the ambiguousness of this one though...
Chemical or biological carrier ammunition (excluding projectiles for any device designed and intended solely for any medical, surgical, veterinary, scientific, agricultural, industrial, or other similar lawful purpose)

Banned unless you have a lawful purpose for it. So as long as you have a legal reason to use it, it is legal. (It does not say that you have to use it at all- just have a lawful use for it...)