Thread: Redundant Calibres

Mmm 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag.
2 calibers that are in the top 10 if not the 5 most popular cartridges in the US.
Maybe not here as such but they arent going anywhere over there and that means here eventually

44-40...
Old man has a model 1892 Winchester 44wcf which was passed down from my late grandfather. Made in 1907. Have around 30 rounds that are 30 years old left with it (been stored well and dry but when you shoot them you can hear the difference in the rounds when fired) but keeping all the brass as my efforts so far to find any 44-40 ammo has been difficult.
Redundant or obsolete? One could argue both.
Would love to come across some more rounds for it but not also not in any great hurry to try locate some more rounds as reloading supplies appear possible to obtain.

Either way, would never part with the 44. It's in the family for good

Originally Posted by JustAnotherSpearo

44-40...
Old man has a model 1892 Winchester 44wcf which was passed down from my late grandfather. Made in 1907. Have around 30 rounds that are 30 years old left with it (been stored well and dry but when you shoot them you can hear the difference in the rounds when fired) but keeping all the brass as my efforts so far to find any 44-40 ammo has been difficult.
Redundant or obsolete? One could argue both.
Would love to come across some more rounds for it but not also not in any great hurry to try locate some more rounds as reloading supplies appear possible to obtain.

Either way, would never part with the 44. It's in the family for good

Components are quite easy to obtain and I probably reload over a thousand rounds of 44-40 every year.
Hunt and target shoot with one.
I do have some factory Winchester Ammo in the cabinet that was $140 per 50 rounds - I'll probably either never fire it or just use it and use the brass.
H&F in Hamilton has the factory ammo quite regularly for some reason

Originally Posted by Makros

Components are quite easy to obtain and I probably reload over a thousand rounds of 44-40 every year.
Hunt and target shoot with one.
I do have some factory Winchester Ammo in the cabinet that was $140 per 50 rounds - I'll probably either never fire it or just use it and use the brass.
H&F in Hamilton has the factory ammo quite regularly for some reason

I'm on the waiting to be called list with H&F and gun city for some but good to know! Thank you

Originally Posted by JustAnotherSpearo

I'm on the waiting to be called list with H&F and gun city for some but good to know! Thank you

If you get stuck without ammo, let me know. Happy to pass on the factory ammo for what it cost me.

Remember… with .308 you can always sabot down.


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Originally Posted by Burb122

Remember… with .308 you can always sabot down.


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Sabot ammunition is now prohibited and possession carries a 2 year jail sentence. Stupid, I know, but that is the crazy world we are currently living in.

the EBRGs twin....6mm Remington I think it is....has forever played catch up to the .243w and failed to do so.... twistrates too slow I believe was biggest issue.
happy to be corrected.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the EBRGs twin....6mm Remington I think it is....has forever played catch up to the .243w and failed to do so.... twistrates too slow I believe was biggest issue.
happy to be corrected.

Greetings @Micky Duck and All,
Warren Page designed 6mm wildcats that he tried to interest both Remington and Winchester in introducing. He succeeded rather too well. Winchester had in mind a hunting cartridge that could be used for varmints and Remington a varmint cartridge that could be used for hunting. In line with the thinking at the time the .243 Win got a 10" twist and the .244 Rem a 12" which would not stabilise the 100 grain projectile. Remington reacted by increasing the twist to 9" and later renaming the cartridge the 6mm Remington but the horse had already bolted. It appears that Remington may have given their Model 700 rifles in .243 a 9" twist as well at least for a time. In many ways the 6mm is a better cartridge than the .243 but it is pretty much dead now.
Regards Grandpamac.

'Caberslash' has it right - it's the bullet that does the damage and that's the way it's always been.

The round lead ball was used from the 1400's to kill men on the battlefield, then to kill game. Range on a RB was limited and it could be slow to load, so the elongated bullet superceded it - the minie. The minie was faster loading and because of it's shape and extra weight could shoot further .............. and that's how it went really - just a progression of bullet styles and materials that kill no better than that lead ball ftrom the 1400's.

I’m inspired. Got the 6.5x55 in the Ute and I’m off for the night. 10 rounds of 140 grn Gold Dot should do some damage if I do my bit.
Realistically I should only need one or two. Really, I’m more redundant than the old Swede is.

As long as you can make ammunition for a gun it will never be absolete or reduntent
All the calibres I have I can cast lead bullet for the limiting factor is brass cases.

The whole rationale behind the 'Prohibited Ammunition' law seems to be their fear of someone shooting at the Police with ammo that will penetrate vests. The wording of the legislation about saboted ammo is a bit vague and seems to be able to cover all saboted rifle & pistol ammo. I suspect their fear there is the lack of evidential striations on recovered projectiles which would prevent forensic ballistic evidence being usable in a prosecution. All of the above tends to indicate they may be afraid of the public!

Originally Posted by gundoc

The whole rationale behind the 'Prohibited Ammunition' law seems to be their fear of someone shooting at the Police with ammo that will penetrate vests. The wording of the legislation about saboted ammo is a bit vague and seems to be able to cover all saboted rifle & pistol ammo. I suspect their fear there is the lack of evidential striations on recovered projectiles which would prevent forensic ballistic evidence being usable in a prosecution. All of the above tends to indicate they may be afraid of the public!

Still don't understand that rationale. The vest is only good if the person shooting at you is nice enough to shoot you in the vest, and even then anything you will likely find being used for deer in NZ will go straight through a standard Police-issue vest. I would be more concerned with the new fangled frangible lead-free hunting ammo designed to split into several chunks after penetrating a good amount. My understanding is that this type of ammo can end up without much in the way of useful stuff for the forensics as well. As far as sabots, shotgun slugs? Every test I've seen on those is fearsome levels of penetration...

Originally Posted by No.3

Still don't understand that rationale. The vest is only good if the person shooting at you is nice enough to shoot you in the vest, and even then anything you will likely find being used for deer in NZ will go straight through a standard Police-issue vest. I would be more concerned with the new fangled frangible lead-free hunting ammo designed to split into several chunks after penetrating a good amount. My understanding is that this type of ammo can end up without much in the way of useful stuff for the forensics as well. As far as sabots, shotgun slugs? Every test I've seen on those is fearsome levels of penetration...

There were accounts of the SV99 being used in Kosavo / Sarajevo with lethal effect against body armour and when it states 5.56 for calibre note that below it is 5.56LR (22LR) . Accuracy meant shot placement at the urban distances was able to 'bypass' body armour - Also worth noting the Russian military 22L ammo has a velocity approaching our 22WMR energy.And they wont sell it even if they were allowed to....
https://en.kalashnikovgroup.ru/catal...vintovka-sv-99