Thread: Ruger Ranch II Bolt face - do I have a problem?

Originally Posted by Slug

Here's a comparison with my 7.62x39, had shot 100's reloads, china milsurp and factory ammo.

Attachment 182588

Just got to admire that workmanship

I have had a whole box of federal blue box ammo etch a bolt face in 7-08 before I noticed the primers where leaking.

The gravel they used to finish that one was of a significantly smaller grade.

I've had a .22-250 Weatherby do the same thing. Was using federal brass and Winchester primers, happened with light normal and hot loads and the primer pockets all felt perfectly fine.

Ended up switching to Norma brass and the problem went away. Bolt head is etched from it but there doesn't appear to be any ongoing problems using it as is.

Originally Posted by Dan.22-250

I've had a .22-250 Weatherby do the same thing. Was using federal brass and Winchester primers, happened with light normal and hot loads and the primer pockets all felt perfectly fine.

Ended up switching to Norma brass and the problem went away. Bolt head is etched from it but there doesn't appear to be any ongoing problems using it as is.

Was there evidence of gas leak like blackening of the case head and bolt face? This is what has me stumped.. I concede I'm not perfect and on the face of it there has been primer failure and gas etching I simply have not noticed...fuckit! So I'm keen to understand what someone else was seeing re their case heads when it was happening to them..

Jhon, the damage to the bolt is minor and should not pose any issues. The rifle still shoot and groups well enough, keep shooting it and forget about the flame cutting on the bolt face.

The cutting should clean up nicely within 0.1 to 0.15mm - just moving your head space out of spec - If you've got the gauges you could set the barrel back a bit and thats it.

If it was me, I'd shoot it until the rainy season and then send it off for repairs - if I feel like it.

Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen

Jhon, the damage to the bolt is minor and should not pose any issues. The rifle still shoot and groups well enough, keep shooting it and forget about the flame cutting on the bolt face.

The cutting should clean up nicely within 0.1 to 0.15mm - just moving your head space out of spec - If you've got the gauges you could set the barrel back a bit and thats it.

If it was me, I'd shoot it until the rainy season and then send it off for repairs - if I feel like it.

Great, thanks! That's what I needed to know.

The bolt face damage is totally due to gas cutting by primer leakage. The bolt face could be repaired by careful TIG welding, doing just a small area at a time to avoid over-heating the bolt and drawing the temper, then machined out by a careful machinist to match the faces and leaving the correct headspace. Not job for the semi-skilled gunsmith but one who is fully skilled. The alternative is a new bolt body which may well be impossible to obtain without sending the rifle back to the factory. Ditch all your brass and start afresh with quality components.

Originally Posted by gundoc

The bolt face damage is totally due to gas cutting by primer leakage. The bolt face could be repaired by careful TIG welding, doing just a small area at a time to avoid over-heating the bolt and drawing the temper, then machined out by a careful machinist to match the faces and leaving the correct headspace. Not job for the semi-skilled gunsmith but one who is fully skilled. The alternative is a new bolt body which may well be impossible to obtain without sending the rifle back to the factory. Ditch all your brass and start afresh with quality components.

thanks, I think....

It looks to me for all the world like rippled weld marks. But I am not familiar with has cutting of bolt faces.

100% gas etching by leaking primers

Mark MacFarlane from Desert Guns fixed this bolt-face etching on my Rem Model 7. Couple hundred bucks and job done. Would have no hesitation recommending his work.

Originally Posted by gqhoon

Mark MacFarlane from Desert Guns fixed this bolt-face etching on my Rem Model 7. Couple hundred bucks and job done. Would have no hesitation recommending his work.

Attachment 182626

Ok that's really helpful. That's is convincing me about the etching happening as the photo shows almost identical damage.

Did you get it fixed because it was affecting functioning? or because you couldn't stand looking at it lol?

There appears in both your and my instances that there is sufficient undamaged bolt face immediately around the firing pin to support the primers. So the gas is clearly leaking like my example from around the edge of the primer against the case head.

Also, what was the cause for you and remedy? Bad primers? Bad or worn brass? Incorrect headspacing?

Others please weigh in here if you have similar experience. Photos would be good.

My brass that shows no sign of gas leak is FC (Federal headstamp) marked 223. It has had probably 3-4 firings.

The one that has the pin hole is a random Winchester headstamp I was unaware was in the mix. Clearly past it's used by date. i guess I will be sorting my brass thoroughly. Given it is a hunting rather than a benchrest rifle, and used to do a bit of plinking, I have not fussed about brass other than checking for obvious defects. Looks like I have to check harder.

What I plan to do is reload some of the 49 brass I have at hand, this time with WSR primers and two different powders, AR2206H and Benchmark 2, at 1 gn under max charge. I'll colour the bolt face in with felt pen and check each time for new gas cutting. I'll keep going with this until I am confident I have found the culprit issue. I do not see the point in fixing the bolt face just to have it happen again.

And as some have pointed out, if I can stop it happening now, and there are no issues or impacts on the gun shooting, the only reason to fix it is pride. Which may be enough in the end. I'm just glad its not $4k rifle !

Another thing that can cause it is scratching the primer pocket when decrimping or cleaning I had that happen with a 2nd hand lot of Lapa 308 brass picked up.
5 blew out of 30 but none of my mixed lot ppu, winchester or federals did all primed with the same cci primers. Like you I didn't notice till later. Didn't worry about the bolt face though not after having seen some nra target rifles.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Another thing that can cause it is scratching the primer pocket when decrimping or cleaning I had that happen with a 2nd hand lot of Lapa 308 brass picked up.
5 blew out of 30 but none of my mixed lot ppu, winchester or federals did all primed with the same cci primers. Like you I didn't notice till later. Didn't worry about the bolt face though not after having seen some nra target rifles.

The plot thickens. Has anyone found the same thing after swaging primer pockets?

I bought the rifle on TradeMe, and failed to do my due diligence and ask for photos of the bolt-face. So while I’m not certain of the cause, the seller did acknowledge that they used Winchester primers, which apparently a bad batch of is well known for this etching of the bolt-face around the primer perimeter.

The rifle shot very well, but the rough bolt face created brass shavings from cycling the bolt. It was still functional, but gave me the shits, so decided to get it fixed.

Mark bushed the bolt-face and was able to maintain the same headspace. I asked Mark to use Jim Borden’s method as per this link https://bordenrifles.com/wp-content/...g_pin_bush.pdf

Originally Posted by Jhon

Was there evidence of gas leak like blackening of the case head and bolt face? This is what has me stumped.. I concede I'm not perfect and on the face of it there has been primer failure and gas etching I simply have not noticed...fuckit! So I'm keen to understand what someone else was seeing re their case heads when it was happening to them..

Case and bolt head looked very similar to yours, however occasionally some gas/rubbish would blow back along the bolt and you could just feel it on your face. Was a very uneasy feeling but made me pretty certain it was gas cutting on the bolt.

After trimming the brass it was obvious that the neck thickness varied a lot, I decided to replace it as the first step in trying to solve the problem and it ended up working. I've used the same and different batches of Winchester primers and CCI primers since and had no issues.

Hadn't thought about the fact that cleaning the primer pockets could have caused it but I did put a lee tool in the drill to do those 200ish rounds of factory brass so it may have been the cause. That would definitely explain the randomness of them.