Thread: Tikka 223 1-8 or 1-12

Originally Posted by taupo_cowboy

That’s for all the info, it’s great. But I’m not sure it makes the decision any easier. As a FYI, the 1/8 is 20 inch, the 1/12 is 22 inch. @Flyblown, @grandpamac would that change your recommendation?

Maybe I should buy both and see which one I like best

Greetings Taupo_cowboy,
Not at all. The inability to shoot the heavier pills will drive you nuts after a while with the 1:12. I don't loose that much velocity between my 26" and 22" tubes and I think I saw something recently that the big velocity losses in the .223 occur when you go below 20". You would likely trim the 22" one to 20" or less if you suppress it anyway. I recently did just that with my old .308 and the velocity loss was minimal. I have held of suppressing either of my T Lite rifles (.223 and 6.5x55) as they are so nice to use just as they are. My VSSF has become something of a safe queen since I got my T3 and is keeping the Sendero company. Not interested in parting with either of them though. Their time will come again no doubt.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Good.

Righto, devil’s advocate time.

I’ve owned both 1:12” and 1:8” Tikkas concurrently, still have the 1:12” and now have a 1:8” Howa.

The 1:12” will go to my grave with me, like a Viking and his battle weapons. It is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. I’ve only ever hand loaded for it and run 50 grain Z-Max at 3400 FPS. It’s the Super Varmint, so heavy barrel. I bought it in Aus for dogs, cats, rabbits, wallabys and roos, and since moving back to New Zealand its taken hundreds of pest goats and a good many red and fallow deer. Everything from a goat up is head shot, as were the hoppers in Aus, by law.

The reason I am talking up the slower twist is that I’ve never been able to replicate quite the same level of field accuracy with either of the 1:8” twist rifles. Nor have I been able to match it with several other mates’ rifles I’ve setup for culling pests, couple of Howa 1:9”, a Sako 85 1:8”, a CZ 1:9”. Nearly, but not quite. So I chest shoot goats and smaller deer with the faster twist rifles, using either 55gr or 62gr Belmont or my hand loaded 70gr Speer in my Howa Mini. Very deadly for sure, but the 1:8”s have never really instilled the same degree of mega confidence as that fast 50gr 1:12”. Stretching the 50gr .223 Rem out to 300, 400m plus on rabbits is very rewarding and it sure as hell improves marksmanship skills, bloody satisfying with a bit of wind about.

In Aus I shot “varminting” style with a bunch of different guys, and there was a clear preference for slower twist, lighter bullets, as fast as possible, despite the fact that it was nearly always a bit windy in the Outback. 1:14” .222s and .22-250s, 1:12” .223 were the normal rifles in the field. Looking back, the 1:8” T3 we had (technically the wife’s rifle) was a bit of an oddity with it’s 75gr A-Max. (And the .243 did that weight bullet so much better.)

So, it it were me and the target species were small varmints and the occasional goat, I would go 1:12” and load it hot. No question. That’s a proper varmint rifle, not a kind of cross over.

The 1:8” is obviously excellent and very popular for good reason, but my take on it is the heavier, slower bullets make it a bit of “jack of all trades, master of none”.

I kept the slower twist barrel at 24”, all the 1:8” have been 20” except the Sako which was .22” (I think).

Were any of the 1:8 or 1:9 the same or similar barrel profile as your 1:12?

because you said the odd goat go 1:8

Originally Posted by Got-ya

Were any of the 1:8 or 1:9 the same or similar barrel profile as your 1:12?

Yes.

The wife's Tikka was an identical Super Varmint apart from the twist. One of the Howas is a HB job. And the CZ was a nice 527 Varmint before it got horribly mistreated by my hillbilly mates.

Interestingly, the CZ shoots my hand loaded 50gr into one classic ragged hole but won't co-operate with factory 64gr SPs whatsoever.

As usual, YMMV. For all the fast twist support, which I totally get, I just find the classic combo of slower twist and lighter, faster bullet that much more accurate. I'm probably horribly bias by now too.

1:8 twist. Do yourself a favour and run some drop charts on a lighter bullets and some heavier bullets. You will soon realise there is not much in way of drop, but wind drift (the one thing that kills a 223 with the wrong bullet) is less with the heavier bullets. My solution is 1:8 twist running 80gr EldM at 2840fps, out of longer mags, with holdover reticle and bracketing.

1:12 for the .223, or better still, 1:14.

For a time, the Remington custom shop built 1:14 .223's, and for good reason.

With a 50-55 grain boat tail/flat base or maybe even a 60 grain flat base for up close, you have the ultimate 'walking varminter' rifle if built on a Sako L461 or A1 with their original sporter contour barrel.



The .223 is not 5.56X45 NATO, so stop trying to make it into one. Latter is meant for M16/M4 rifles with a different throat to .223 AR's (RIP) and the former was always meant to be a sporting cartridge which bridged the very small gap between the .222 and .222 Mag. IMHO the US Military's 'pie in the sky' requirements crippled the M16/M4 platform, penetrating a steel helmet at 500 yards... the Soviets were happy with 300 meters.

Yet they took notice of the .223 chambered Vietnam era AR15's and looked to make their own small calibre assault rifle cartridge, hence the 5.45x39 which the Afghans hated... wonder how they felt about the 5.56 NATO firing a heavier yet slower bullet?

Personally would not take a .22 centerfire much past 300 meters, as much after that distance and beyond a 6mm will stomp it into the ground.

That being said, with the average deer being taken at well under 300m, I think the .223 is a fine deer rifle in the right hands.

Shame that Howa can't make the Mini into a proper sporter with a floorplate , would be the closest thing to an old Sako Vixen...

Would not look at a new Tikka T3 unless I was shooting 30-06/.270 or a WSM due to the action length and stupid magazine size.



If you really want to do the fast twist .223 thing, do it on a Rem Model 7.

[QUOTE=caberslash;1182831
Shame that Howa can't make the Mini into a proper sporter with a floorplate , would be the closest thing to an old Sako Vixen...
[/QUOTE]

With an after market floorplate they are a great wee rifle. Really like mine!


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I've got a zastava m85 1:10 so it's in the middle it can just handle 65 grain flat base spire points but at around125 to 150 metres they loose stability and tend to go wandering.
I've had 2 other 223s an ar and a ruger both 1:8 but always came back to this one.
It eats anything from 52 to 62 grains without complaint. I settled on 62 grain bullets in the end.