Thread: Uberti 38-55 1885 High Wall Sporter - first impressions, photo heavy

Now I shall try to put this politely.... If you ignore the chronograph numbers and look at holes in paper...which is best load??? That rifle doesn't care for numbers,the fellas who made it hadn't even had a wet dream/nightmare about ES....so try forgetting it and just see how you go for a bit... By all means come back to it but as a wise old grizzly fella once said" many a great load has been ruined by a chronograph". If it's accurate the numbers don't matter.

Originally Posted by Jhon

What are your groups and ES like with 4227?

I can't remember if I noted es as that was a few years ago, and I've "just kept shooting". This is a pretty typical 50 yard group.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Now I shall try to put this politely.... If you ignore the chronograph numbers and look at holes in paper...which is best load??? That rifle doesn't care for numbers,the fellas who made it hadn't even had a wet dream/nightmare about ES....so try forgetting it and just see how you go for a bit... By all means come back to it but as a wise old grizzly fella once said" many a great load has been ruined by a chronograph". If it's accurate the numbers don't matter.

Bahaaa...yes I know Mickey, but fun is fun. And yiu have to admit, there is a fair degree of correlation between good groups and velocity/ES.
Which is to say, you don't tend to see good groups with a large ES. And its amazing how a small change in velocity, tied directly to the amount of powder in the charge, is reflected in the quality of the group. Yes, I understand the group is also affected by other factors not the least of which is the nut holding the wheel. What I do find is that a projectile that groups well with a particular powder at a a certain velocity is likely to return similar group performance at that velocity with another powder. All other things, including the wheel nut, being reasonably equal. That has value at a time when supply forces different choices in powder. It also satisfies my curiosity, somewhat...

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I can't remember if I noted es as that was a few years ago, and I've "just kept shooting". This is a pretty typical 50 yard group.

Well at least I'm in the ballpark

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Now I shall try to put this politely.... If you ignore the chronograph numbers and look at holes in paper...which is best load??? That rifle doesn't care for numbers,the fellas who made it hadn't even had a wet dream/nightmare about ES....so try forgetting it and just see how you go for a bit... By all means come back to it but as a wise old grizzly fella once said" many a great load has been ruined by a chronograph". If it's accurate the numbers don't matter.

Context matters here Micky, a lot.
All well and good when you're shooting modern cartridges in the 2500-3000 FPS range with small slippery projectiles at <300m ranges to have a bit of variation. But his variation is often in excess of 10% of his total velocity. If he were to use this rifle at greater than 49m the vertical spread would become problematic very quickly rendering it unreliable for even hunting accuracy. Even at 100m this variation is going to show up, 200m you'd be off paper with some shots. It does need to be rectified.

I've had this issue before in 44-40 with great accuracy at 50m but massive vertical variation beyond. I believe it's low fill percentages of powder causing quite extreme positional sensitivity. Change powder to something with a higher fill percentage or much lower positional sensitivity. I remember your posts about black powder being an issue because of lung issues so trying to find someone with some trailboss or similar might be your best bet.

I'm about to load up some black powder 38-55 for some sighting in for the weekend, will come back and report my velocities and spread (I hope for sub 15fps ES).

Also as an accuracy target my Uberti 1873 44-40 lever action will group with all shots touching at 50m. I would expect more from this rifle and wouldn't settle for the current groupings.

Yip I do understand that..verticle spread will show erratic speeds.... But a good group is a good group.also agree 100% about case fullness being important,it's one of the few universal rules of reloading that the load with highest fill volume is USUALLY the most consistent...

Group two in first is good and three in next lot is also interesting as if you moved holes horizontally it would be a very tight group...keep playing and something will fall into place,your brass is now sized in your chamber too which just has to help. Trail boss could be interesting indeed although folks with chronograph have rubbished it for subsonic loads n prefer faster pistol powders.... It went bang n bullets came out end for me lol

I believe the groups size that everyone is slagging is possibly more likely a sight issue. There haven't been multiple groups of each charge shot and the sizes compared.
The sights are buckhorn in jhons case and a martini enfield rear and Lyman front post in mine.
I struggle to align both even with a diopter on my glasses and am pretty pleased with 2 inches at 50 considering, I can't connect for jhon he may have 20/20. A tang aperture may result in a significant improvement, after all all the cool kids in the 1880s used them for long range work.

Hey...I'm not slagging them!!! Rather the opposite. It's an old cartridge in old rifle design with short range hunting sights,it's about as good as expected EG a SMLE was speced to be 4" at hundy....no better,that was good enough.this is older spec,older cartridge etc.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I believe the groups size that everyone is slagging is possibly more likely a sight issue. There haven't been multiple groups of each charge shot and the sizes compared.
The sights are buckhorn in jhons case and a martini enfield rear and Lyman front post in mine.
I struggle to align both even with a diopter on my glasses and am pretty pleased with 2 inches at 50 considering, I can't connect for jhon he may have 20/20. A tang aperture may result in a significant improvement, after all all the cool kids in the 1880s used them for long range work.

Yes I agree Marty. The plan now is to take the 2-3 best looking groups and shoot say 3 groups each of each load. And start moving to 100 and 200m..no my vision is not 20/20. There's not going to be much change out of $1k for a sight upgrade.. $550 for front and $250-400 for rear depending on what ya go for. Will be persisting with the Buckhorn and are for.a.little.while.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Yes I agree Marty. The plan now is to take the 2-3 best looking groups and shoot say 3 groups each of each load. And start moving to 100 and 200m..no my vision is not 20/20. There's not going to be much change out of $1k for a sight upgrade.. $550 for front and $250-400 for rear depending on what ya go for. Will be persisting with the Buckhorn and are for.a.little.while.

You don't have to go full tang vernier Jhon. The Marble Arms peep sights are really handy for 50-200m ranges. You can just use the standard front sight with them. Add a taller upright element and you can reach right out there. A standard post height on my Uberti 1873 44-40 lever action maxes out bang on 200m, but the 44-40 is a slow brick even compared to the 38.
Improved Peep Tang Sight

For those interested Delta Mike now have the 250gn Serpent powder coated FPs back in stock, 250ct and 500ct

those are some pretty bloody high es @Jhon
id say that highlights the need to batch-weigh cast projectiles those bulk ones are just that