Thread: What .22lr to buy

Originally Posted by mudgripz

I think you are right about the Toz 78 Tim.

I remember doing a range test and review of one 10-15 years ago (for Gary I think) and liked it. It wasn't as well finished as a nice CZ 452 then, but it was a tidy, sturdy little unit. Shot about 0.7" groups at 50m from memory but I thought then there was more to come. After test my impression was it would be an ideal field worker 22 for NZ conditions - especially as it came with 4 magazines included in that fairly modest price. Was a step up from the basic Toz 17 which I've also had. Yes I saw them under the Winchester Wildcat label.

Its a pity the 78s are not around any more. Good reliable little hunters.

Oh, they are still around...but everyne I know who has one will not part with it....... And considering that the Toz 17 stopped being imported in the 70s you only have to look on trade me to see they are selling for more than they were new and still work well...The only down side with the older Toz 17s is magazines are scarcer than unicorn horn....(not to be mistaken with a battle unicorn which is very different....)

Originally Posted by Hermitage

Anschutz rifles are very good, but they are pushing Vudoo .22 prices, and parts availability and cost are biggies (making the Vudoo look like a bargain).
For the price of a new Anschutz you can buy two CZ 457s, ammo test them and keep the best one.
Therefore your best value opportunity for a good 22lr bolt action is a CZ.

Anschutz is way cheaper than Vudoo. 1761 is about 2k, 64 action based are cheaper than that. 1710/1712 has been out of stock for some time but i dont expect them to go beyond 3500 when they come in. 3 years ago they were 3000. 1727 uses Fortner action so it is not comparable to Vudoo, but still only 5k.

Vudoo's barrled action + mag is 6300, that is before you put on any stock. with a full chassis you are looking at 8~9k.

However, the Anschutz and Vudoo do not really compete. Anschutz cater to smallbore target shooting (Olympic styel), Biathlon, sporting rifle, competition sporting rifle (Silhouette) , Benchrest, and collector market. Vudoo is 95% PRS , 4% benchrest, and 1% sporting rifle. When was the last time you saw someone rocking a Vudoo at Silhouette or sporting rifle club shoot?

Originally Posted by Lucky

After a bolt gun , I think the CZ is the way to go , will put a add in the wtd section

There are only 2 real options for your mate's price range that are worth buying: CZ457 or Tikka T1X. Everything else is sub-par.

I have a T1x and it’s OK accuracy wise definitely not Benchrest accurate but still good compared to a lot of rimfires and I’ve tried just about every type of ammo you can think of .
The main reason I have it is because I also run a few T3x centerfires and I’ve got them all set up stock/ergonimics/trigger etc wise to be the same .
The T1x is my fun/practice rifle which I use to practice shooting off hand / from shooting sticks etc to try and gain some skills to help my Centerfire hunting.

Shit didn’t realise this thread had continued , have had my Brno Model 1 for over 20 yrs and it will never need replacing and it shoots good enough , we are keeping a eye on the CZ listings but might look at the Norinco also , cheers

@RabbitStu had a Norinco EM-332 for sale a while back. Not sure if it is still available.

After owning two EM332s I an at a bit of a loss to understand the supposed reputation they "own". Neither of the examples I owned shot any better than a BRNO/CZ or other like quality rifles. They also have a supposed "match" chamber that engraves on loading. This is a complete shit of a thing, it makes closing the bolt stiffer than it needs to be, and also to extract an unfired round. Its comletely unnecessary, all the more so cause it doesn't push them into a higher accuracy class. The stock and bedding are "third world". Id spend my money on an old Remmy 581 or the like before Id go EM-332.

good on ya tentman yes in this debate a lot of really good older .22 have been largely ignored Remington 541s Brno models one and two

Originally Posted by Tentman

After owning two EM332s I an at a bit of a loss to understand the supposed reputation they "own". Neither of the examples I owned shot any better than a BRNO/CZ or other like quality rifles. They also have a supposed "match" chamber that engraves on loading. This is a complete shit of a thing, it makes closing the bolt stiffer than it needs to be, and also to extract an unfired round. Its comletely unnecessary, all the more so cause it doesn't push them into a higher accuracy class. The stock and bedding are "third world". Id spend my money on an old Remmy 581 or the like before Id go EM-332.

The three problems I found with my EM-332:
1 - they are a bugger for 'throwing' the first few shots (cold bore flyers)
2 - stock is narrow and high...I just found it difficult to hold steady
3 - accuracy was averaging 0.60" @50 which wasn't up to expectation

Originally Posted by Ground Control

I have a T1x and it’s OK accuracy wise definitely not Benchrest accurate but still good compared to a lot of rimfires and I’ve tried just about every type of ammo you can think of .
The main reason I have it is because I also run a few T3x centerfires and I’ve got them all set up stock/ergonimics/trigger etc wise to be the same .
The T1x is my fun/practice rifle which I use to practice shooting off hand / from shooting sticks etc to try and gain some skills to help my Centerfire hunting.

What barrel length?
My 16" barrel never was quite as accurate as I wanted it to be, it was definitely capable of excellent accuracy but was sensitive to ammo an cleaning, and suppressor cleanliness.

For a hunting rifle 16" is the way to go but if ultimate accuracy is what you're after I think the longer barrel is the way to go.

Originally Posted by blip

The other thing i should mention is Im left handed and there aren't many options for them in rf. I had a lhd lakefield as well which was pretty good after I modded the trigger

real nice Remington 581 leftie on trade me at moment they are a great .22

Yes Remmy 581 nice. There are alot of other 22LR sporter bolt action makes and models aside from those mentioned above. Examples - some of which can be fine and accurate shooters:

Voere models
Krico models
Remington models – 34s, 511 Scoremaster, 512 Sportmaster, models 504, 541, 581/582
Winchester models - 67. 69, 320,
Marlin models - bolts 25, 925, 880, 980, XT-22
Lithgow models 12, 55 etc (some also sold as Slazenger)
Sportco models 62, M66S
Ruger american
Savage Mk 2, B22 etc and laminate hvy barrel variants
Toz models - 17, 78, 78-06. (some also sold as Winchester, Baikal)
Zastava model CZ99
BSA models – Sportsman 5, plus tube variants.

Have owned/used a number of these and some are fine rifles - many of the older shooters will have done so. Key questions for buyer now are - what is exact purpose, and for each of the less common models what is now the availability of replacement parts - pins, springs, ejectors, magazines etc? Great pleasure owning classic Remmies, Winchester, BSA etc - but for a single 22LR likely to do some work its good to focus on models we can service.

My two EM-332s shot well for sporter class rifles but were not match standard. Best I think at 50m was about 0.37" average for a set of groups - but - at 100m the one I tested most absolutely shone. Would print down to 0.5s at 100m with several ammos, and best four consec group average at 100m was 0.69", with all four groups in the 0.5 - 0.8" range. Sold it for same reason mentioned above - it always needed a barrel warmer which is not ideal for hunting.

Ruger american would be my suggestion, nice flush mag, great to shoot, hard wearing, not too spendy.
I had one in .22 mag and only sold ut as couldn't get subsonic for it anymore.
Would love one in .22lr, but my norinco jw27 does just fine out to 100m with a cheap scope and guessing hold over.

I would probably recommend the Winchester Wildcat. Pretty reliable I've shot about 500 rounds and haven't had any problems with it yet, just make sure to get a different magazine. The Winchester mag is shit and will fall apart after 100 shots, get the Rugger 10/22 magazine, a lot better and will last a while. They are also really light and it has a feature which lets it remove the receiver with just a button.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

What barrel length?
My 16" barrel never was quite as accurate as I wanted it to be, it was definitely capable of excellent accuracy but was sensitive to ammo an cleaning, and suppressor cleanliness.

For a hunting rifle 16" is the way to go but if ultimate accuracy is what you're after I think the longer barrel is the way to go.

Put the T1x in a MDT ACC or KRG stock and you'll see its not far off the elite 22s accuracy wise.