Thread: Who is interested in a pass-around for a Chinese scope?

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

My view on potential quality:

I own about 10 scopes in total. 2 American, 1 Japanese, rest are Chinese. The Chinese ones include Hawke, Nikkor Stirling, and Mueller. I have not yet had any Chinese scope die on me. Warranty obviously is an important consideration for purchase. When you buy from aliexpress you cannot expect much. That definitely is a con. However when you buy a mid-ranged known brand scope you also get no warranty, or at least without original receipt warranty will be a big hassle to enforce. People still buy them (secondhand scope of known brand) because the price makes it worth well. This scope, and many other Chinese brand scopes, are made by factories that makes OEM for other known brands. They spent about 15 years making scopes for Bushnell, Vortex, Hawke, Nikkor, Weaver, Mueller, etc. So they know how to make scopes. They just do not have the name power and do not get to test their own scopes with real fire arms.


On why this scope - this is a 8x zoom scope with a lot of modern features. xmas tree recticle, ed glass, pull and push turret, 30mm tube, flip cap, side focus, etc. if the IQ pans out, at 400 bucks it is very good value. Nikkon 3-15 with ED glass cost about 1100, VX5HD 3-15 cost 1700, just to name a couple known brand with these kind of features and range (obviously much more reliable on expected quality and warranty as well, but I a just comparing features here). For those who do not need this scope on a big gun, anything 223 or under, so long as it is not actually shit I do not see it getting killed by recoil. A lot of people shot Nikkor Stirling and Hawke on 308 for years and they were OK.

Only Non magnum I have with 30 mm rings is a 30 06 which currently runs 180gn superformance. I may be interested in taking it for a range sesh.
Whats the objective size? Not all things made in China are shit problem is the good ones normally have an American rebranding and adding a hefty margin. Dealing direct with the manufacturer makes a lot of sense.

Who gets the $400 if it was to get damaged, and who decides what caused the damage

Originally Posted by Harryg

Who gets the $400 if it was to get damaged, and who decides what caused the damage

pretty much the crux of the matter. A lot relying on trust and although I have never yet been burnt buying thru the forum and generally send stuff i sell before payment has been recieved I have about had the "trust" kicked out of me lately

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Any female member under the age of 30, preferably good looking, who is looking for a good time, should apply. More than eyeballing can be expected.

So that proves it. You are a lawyer.

Cool concept and good on you for trying to share the experience. The only bit that i dont quite get is the $400 part. You want trust from the testers to hold a $400 bond but have not paid it yourself. Thats not trust. Trust for me would be pay shipping and treat it well (trust) and see how it goes. Even if someone ran it over why should you make $400?

This is not a new concept.

"..Goods owned in common by a large number of people will receive little attention, since people will mainly consult their own self-interest and will neglect all duty they can fob off on to others. In contrast, people will devote the greatest interest and care to their own property."

An idea well over 2000 years old, in this case Aristotle

Trust works better when it goes both ways

Maybe a token 50 bucks would work out better.

I dont mind meeting up for a beer to help assure others that you're bona fide. I don't even have anything in need of a scope.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Gibo

Cool concept and good on you for trying to share the experience. The only bit that i dont quite get is the $400 part. You want trust from the testers to hold a $400 bond but have not paid it yourself. Thats not trust. Trust for me would be pay shipping and treat it well (trust) and see how it goes. Even if someone ran it over why should you make $400?

This is a fair question, the answer is in fact quite complicated. But let's try anyway.

On the issue of trust. I have spent a lot of time talking to the guy and talking to you guys over this proposal. Trust me it is not easy to convince him and equally not easy to convince you lot. What do I get out of this in the end of the day? A chance to play with this scope without paying retail price. Just like the rest of you. So for starters if you think I am not trustworthy despite plainly my efforts put into this would be disproportional if I just wanted to scam 410 dollars (the maximum amount I could possibly scam, if I was a scammer), then let the reading end at this point.

It is one thing that after all these discussions each interested forum member decides for himself if I am trustworthy. It is another thing to ask me to vet every single interested party. I cannot do it. No time and no able. I cannot possibly make the correct call to say, Gibo I do not trust you but Tahr I trust you. So the only way to make this work, from my end, is for a participant to deposit 400 bucks as bond.

Now turning to the ownership issue of the scope. The guy did not say "bro I like you so I am going to give you one for free". If that was the case why do I bother with a pass-around? He is willing to send one over, without me/us paying for it, to test/play with it. I told him that in the end of the day, it may break from recoil, it may get scratches from use, etc, so do not expect to get it back in good condition, or get it back at all. Now he is willing to accept that, but he is not prepared to just give one out and then forget about it. That is not the point of this exercise. I only just started talkng to him yesterday, he owes me nothing and knows no one in this forum. What he wants get out of this, is reviews and feedbacks. If someone (for argument sake) steals it, loses it or damages it through negligence , I will have to have an awkward conversation with him. He is not going to come to New Zealand and sue me (I do not think), but it certainly will be shitty. I am not sure what I would do in that situation, to pay him or not, but I certainly do not want that situation to happen in the first place. The best and fairest way to reduce the chance of it happening I can think of is the 400 dollar bond, so that everyone will take good care of it.

This scope can be bought from a few stores on Aliexpress for 440 NZD (then you will have to pay GST etc). On JD.com (China's Amazon equivalent) it is 2400 RMB which is about 500 NZD. So 400 dollar bond in my view really is very fair.

Originally Posted by systolic

For $400 I'd buy a second hand Leupold and keep it.

Sure thing, different strokes for different folks.

For 400 bucks, I do not think you are going to get a Leupold with:
1. side focus,
2. more than 3.5x zoom range
3. more than 14 max zoom
4. xmas tree recticle
5. VX3 class+ glass

Not saying that you need them, but if you wanted them all on a leupold, you will have to pay 900+ for secondhand.

Sorry mate, you lost me at " I only just started talking to the guy yesterday", after stating that you have spent a lot of time and effort gaining his trust

I am very untrustworthy you’re on to me but like i said i like what you’re trying to do, just not onboard with the ‘how’. Good luck

Originally Posted by Pengy

Sorry mate, you lost me at " I only just started talking to the guy yesterday", after stating that you have spent a lot of time and effort gaining his trust

Firstly, why do you care how much time I spent exactly if in the end he has agreed to send one over for testing? is it you think I made up this entire story or is it you think if I did not spend what you would consider "enough hours" you think he will change his mind tomorrow?

Secondly, if you think by a lot I meant hundreds of hours talking to him? you have to be kidding yourself then, mate. We all got a busy job and even busier life.

FWIW, back in January I first talked to the guy (a different guy) who run their facebook page. He is a wholesale guy and he handles marketing for this brand (T-Eagle). we spent a lot of time discussing their marketing direction and the lack of review, etc. anyway at the end of it all he was not keen on this idea of sending one over for free, he was willing to send one over at cost for me to do the reviews. I did not take up his offer. I did not want to spend a few hundred bucks, having to write a comprehensive review, and then stuck with a bad scope. But he is a friendly guy and I still chat with him every now and then.

Then I tracked down the actual manager of this brand, a girl. I then chatted with her. I told her that I have been interested in this scope because the specs look very good however there are no reviews on the internet at all. Her response was that this scope is made for domestic market so they have not and probably will not make the effort to market it overseas (now that made no sense to me, but that is another story). I pretty much gave up at that point. Then she said why dont you talk to my boss, so she put me in touch with with this guy (who is now offering to send one over). I pretty much had to go through every argument I made to the first guy and the girl (well, I make a living persuade people). He is definitely interested in the international market (in my view the only real market). So in the end he agreed in principle to send one over.

Anyway, if you think my efforts are not good enough for you, that is fine.

Do you have a group of mates that could all give it a burn?

What's the end game? Just that some people get to have a burn on a different scope or you looking to build some faith in the product so you can become the importer for them?

Also what kind of time frame are you expecting trials to be conducted in?

Not sure why people are getting so sensitive over the bond idea, lots of places you rent specialist gear from require the same.