Thread: 70 series - what mod or what mod NOT to get

Originally Posted by Vault

Any 4wd is only as good as the tread on the tyres...

First thing is put mud tyres on it.

Well, I used to think that too. Then I had the experience of hitting a wet clay pan in a brand new ranger still on road/factory tyres...

I was slowly sliding downhill into a strainer post, and went hmmm. Into 4wd, that did f-all and if anything I slid straighter down the hill and not pivoting around the stationary fronts... Tried the left foot on the brake trick, the slight bit of handbrake trick and went well this is a f-up. No way to pull forwards (nothing in front) nothing to pull back on, no one else around and literally a brand spanking new truck vs strainer post!

Well, try anything once. Into 4L, and the new fangled electronic diff lock. F-me, it made a hell of a racket but drove straight out like it was on concrete. I looked at me wife who was with me and she had a look on my face like what were you doing wrong you tosser! I explained what it did and how it worked and she looked at me with the blankest expression (it was actually quite cute) so I just had to go and do it again to prove what I was saying. And that was on wet clay - the stuff you just about can't stand on and tread style or air pressure really doesn't make that much difference... So tech done right can basically trump all.

Regarding tyres... beware.

There's so much BS regarding tyres.

I've run ATs since forever, and cross ply off-road "biscuits" before that. Nowhere I couldn't go. How?, Flybown, I hear you ask.

Tyre pressure. Be able to (a) reduce pressure to the correct level for the conditions, and (b) increase pressure to whatever is required after that.

It's its really, really shit, carry a set of chains. That'll see you right.

The correct tyre pressure is an art that you only learn thru experience... believing that you've got MTs so all is good is only gonna end in tears eventually. Comically, probably, for those watching.

Originally Posted by No.3

Well, I used to think that too. Then I had the experience of hitting a wet clay pan in a brand new ranger still on road/factory tyres...

I was slowly sliding downhill into a strainer post, and went hmmm. Into 4wd, that did f-all and if anything I slid straighter down the hill and not pivoting around the stationary fronts... Tried the left foot on the brake trick, the slight bit of handbrake trick and went well this is a f-up. No way to pull forwards (nothing in front) nothing to pull back on, no one else around and literally a brand spanking new truck vs strainer post!

Well, try anything once. Into 4L, and the new fangled electronic diff lock. F-me, it made a hell of a racket but drove straight out like it was on concrete. I looked at me wife who was with me and she had a look on my face like what were you doing wrong you tosser! I explained what it did and how it worked and she looked at me with the blankest expression (it was actually quite cute) so I just had to go and do it again to prove what I was saying. And that was on wet clay - the stuff you just about can't stand on and tread style or air pressure really doesn't make that much difference... So tech done right can basically trump all.

Having a diff lock is great but if you didnt but had decent mud tyres reasonable tyre pressure you still might get out..

Id rather have them than not.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Regarding tyres... beware.

There's so much BS regarding tyres.

I've run ATs since forever, and cross ply off-road "biscuits" before that. Nowhere I couldn't go. How?, Flybown, I hear you ask.

Tyre pressure. Be able to (a) reduce pressure to the correct level for the conditions, and (b) increase pressure to whatever is required after that.

It's its really, really shit, carry a set of chains. That'll see you right.

The correct tyre pressure is an art that you only learn thru experience... believing that you've got MTs so all is good is only gonna end in tears eventually. Comically, probably, for those watching.

Yep all true, i went everywhere on AT's untill one day I didnt.. bought a set of Hi-fly Vigorous MT's and never looked back.

Sure you need some experience and nouce to drive a good line, use the right gear and ratio but generally unless extreme where diff lockers, winches are needed a good set of MT's will get you further than road tyres.

Ive seen people in Dunedin stuck on their own front lawns with AT's.

Next to modern diff technology, knobbly tyres were the next level of tech..

I ran a lifted xj cherokee with Maxxis Muds, I pulled a lot of hilux's, surfs, bighorns even few land cruisers out of a lot of mud and rivers with just raw 4 litre petrol power grunt and good tyres

Looking at the photo of the truck mentioned above, in my opinion it wont be less capable with a decent set of tyres and a 2 inch lift

Originally Posted by Vault

Yep all true, i went everywhere on AT's untill one day I didnt.. bought a set of Hi-fly Vigorous MT's and never looked back.

Sure you need some experience and nouce to drive a good line, use the right gear and ratio but generally unless extreme where diff lockers, winches are needed a good set of MT's will get you further than road tyres.

Ive seen people in Dunedin stuck on their own front lawns with AT's.

Next to modern diff technology, knobbly tyres were the next level of tech..

I ran a lifted xj cherokee with Maxxis Muds, I pulled a lot of hilux's, surfs, bighorns even few land cruisers out of a lot of mud and rivers with just raw 4 litre petrol power grunt and good tyres

Looking at the photo of the truck mentioned above, in my opinion it wont be less capable with a decent set of tyres and a 2 inch lift

Yes, but also no. You haven’t mentioned tyre pressures.

Tyre pressure and footprint trumps a fully inflated MT tread pattern pretty much every time.

The sensible money is on a decent AT tyre that you can really run effectively on all terrains, with the proviso that you are adjusting your tyre pressures accordingly.

We’ve all rescued pillocks who have got themselves into trouble and the common denominator pretty much every time is that they are running their tyres fully inflated. The last recovery we did was a Disco II out of soft wet sand and an incoming tide. A flash rig with big flash fuckwit tyres an’ all. I refused to drive onto the beach and the guy was getting really toey with us. All I needed was my tyre pressure gauge and a sea shell - dropped his tyres down to 10psi and I drove the fucking thing straight out. (Wouldn’t let him do it.)

MTs are shit on the bitumen, shit in sand, shit pretty much all the time except in proper mud, assuming you’ve got your pressures right. And even then it’s very easy to get into trouble in mud with MTs. 95% of 4WD drivers spend 95% of the time on bitumen or prepared gravel roads, so I cannot get my head around why we would advise this fella to put MTs on his truck (when he doesn’t even want a bullbar).

I run F&R lockers, winch, lifted, manual 4WD as a general purpose go anywhere vehicle and I don’t run MTs, for good reason. End of rant!

Originally Posted by Vault

Having a diff lock is great but if you didnt but had decent mud tyres reasonable tyre pressure you still might get out..

Id rather have them than not.

Electronic locking diff isn't a diff lock in the mechanical sense that you're talking about there - it uses the ABS system to limit individual wheel slip and basically helps to prevent the initial break of traction and wheel slip that gets you into the crap and stalled out in the first place. On wet clay, a mechanical locking diff just allows both wheels across the diff to spin equally, slip limiting on each wheel independently using the ABS system while noisy as heck basically allows you to roll straight out of the slick stuff without any throttle on and drive straight through. The old fashioned way of attacking this surface type was charge hard, with almost slick tyres aired down for maximum contact patch with the good people loading the brakes a bit to try and minimise break out. MT's are no use on clay they just tend to clog and dig, it's a crap of a stuff to drive on to be honest.

I'm also no longer a fan of airing down tyres in general - while the increased contact patch is effective and it does serve a purpose, modern tyres seem to be quite vulnerable to side wall damage and I've lost several tyres to sticks and rocks slicing straight through the side wall. Last one was on sand, a buried forked stick that rolled it's forked bit through the sidewall. Its bloody dangerous and difficult trying to change a tyre on sand where you can't get somewhere solid and you don't have something handy to increase the surface area of the jack base to stop it sinking!

Lol my farm is on a beach and i spend most days driving 4x4s on hills and tracks on farm and sand and ill stick with M.Ts theres not a lot of anecdotes that will change my mind on that.

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Originally Posted by Cartman

Lol my farm is on a beach and i spend most days driving 4x4s on hills and tracks on farm and sand and ill stick with M.Ts theres not a lot of anecdotes that will change my mind on that.

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Yep, you've got the conditions that suit MT the best. MT on all terrain or gravel roads is nowhere near as good, one brand on MT's (that I won't name but quite expensive with an advertised mileage guarantee) lasted less than 20,000Km's and declined their warranty due to the damage to the tread being evidence of use on gravel and also heavy loading and towing being blamed as well. In comparison dirty old Dunlop AT22's returned 65-70,000Km's in the same useage!

My Unimog was shod with what would pass as AT's. With axle articulation and diff locks all around it was pretty capable over most surfaces. Clay (and volcanic ash) however was nasty. And the only thing for it was CHAINS. Allowed for less revs, and turned it into a true beast.

Such a simple concept and yet so stunning that we often joked that rubber would only get you so far, but you needed steel to really go anywhere (was also a nod to tracked vehicles)

I'd stay with AT's and just carry chains when the situation dictated.

Been driving 70s for 35 yrs almost
For Africa stay on biscuits tyres
For ausie bfg, only Tyre that handles heat and sharp rocks at same time
For me 1st up was winch as a must have and maxtrax , lot of very remote solo exploring, like 1000km from closest town , winch, u need a bullbar ( hopper knocker), which raises weight which means aftermarket suspension , long range tanks , I carry almost 500l all up plus 120l water
Fk the oem speakers off, I only just did it after 5 yrs , what a diff
Must do , raise all breathers
2nd fuel filter , as I get fuel from minesites / farmers etc never know how clean it is
Get a spare serpentine belt, hasn't gone yet , but can ruin your day
Driving lights , but u don't have that silly hoppers that will jump in front of u
Led courtesy light best $5
2nd battery and solar panels to run 2 engels
Bash plate to protect bottom of drivetrain
Reckon idea of chains in this country is a must
Mine is ecu remapped, and 3 inch xhaust, toyo never cottoned on , but that also needs an upgraded clutch

But most useful upgrade, a discount fuel card

Originally Posted by No.3

I'm also no longer a fan of airing down tyres in general - while the increased contact patch is effective and it does serve a purpose, modern tyres seem to be quite vulnerable to side wall damage and I've lost several tyres to sticks and rocks slicing straight through the side wall. Last one was on sand, a buried forked stick that rolled it's forked bit through the sidewall. Its bloody dangerous and difficult trying to change a tyre on sand where you can't get somewhere solid and you don't have something handy to increase the surface area of the jack base to stop it sinking!

You should therefore consider running LT tyres, 10 ply rating.

Yep, been there done that when it comes to sidewall damage. The worst (and last) occasion was driving out of the Okavango Delta in Botswana, we staked two tyre sidewalls in a couple of km on buried ironwood in the sand, so no spares left. It was still ~200km of sand track driving to get to Maun, inc several deep river crossings, a nerve wracking drive. Walking out was not an option (you'd get eaten) and we hadn't seen another vehicle in 2 weeks. Those were regular Hankook 31x10.5R15 4x4 tyres - soft as shite! Lesson learned.

In Maun I changed to 12 ply rated Dunlop Universal 7.00-16 on Toyota split rims, and have never run anything less than 10PR ever since. Those tyres were amazing, and two sets took us from Cape Town all the way to Eritrea (and back), zigzagging across Southern & Eastern Africa to the remotest places we could get to. Had one puncture in two years (piece of rusty iron hidden in sand). Since we left Africa, we've run Light Truck radials, done a big chunk of N America, the whole of Aus, and NZ several times over.

Have never had a staked sidewall again - will happily drop pressure down to 10psi in extreme circumstances, and normally run 18-20psi when properly off-road in variable mud / rock conditions.

(I ran Cooper MTs (STT Pro LT) for a while a few years ago for the Ruapehu farm - I killed them in less than a year driving the 350km from home to the farm and back. Binned them after 11,000km as the tread was so worn from the bitumen driving that they were farkin' dangerous in the papa mud, useless. Regretted that purchase ever since as I cannot fathom how I convinced myself to deviate from the proven LT/AT formula. Expensive mistake.)

@Cartman, your usage puts you firmly in the 5%, and you'll be in a very small minority of guys who fit MTs and actually use them according to the specified 80/20 off/on road usage (which is precisely why the Coopers I used failed me so badly - poor choice for the mileage I was doing.)

Originally Posted by Flyblown

You should therefore consider running LT tyres, 10 ply rating.

Yep, been there done that when it comes to sidewall damage. The worst (and last) occasion was driving out of the Okavango Delta in Botswana, we staked two tyre sidewalls in a couple of km on buried ironwood in the sand, so no spares left. It was still ~200km of sand track driving to get to Maun, inc several deep river crossings, a nerve wracking drive. Walking out was not an option (you'd get eaten) and we hadn't seen another vehicle in 2 weeks. Those were regular Hankook 31x10.5R15 4x4 tyres - soft as shite! Lesson learned.

In Maun I changed to 12 ply rated Dunlop Universal 7.00-16 on Toyota split rims, and have never run anything less than 10PR ever since. Those tyres were amazing, and two sets took us from Cape Town all the way to Eritrea (and back), zigzagging across Southern & Eastern Africa to the remotest places we could get to. Had one puncture in two years (piece of rusty iron hidden in sand). Since we left Africa, we've run Light Truck radials, done a big chunk of N America, the whole of Aus, and NZ several times over.

Have never had a staked sidewall again - will happily drop pressure down to 10psi in extreme circumstances, and normally run 18-20psi when properly off-road in variable mud / rock conditions.

(I ran Cooper MTs (STT Pro LT) for a while a few years ago for the Ruapehu farm - I killed them in less than a year driving the 350km from home to the farm and back. Binned them after 11,000km as the tread was so worn from the bitumen driving that they were farkin' dangerous in the papa mud, useless. Regretted that purchase ever since as I cannot fathom how I convinced myself to deviate from the proven LT/AT formula. Expensive mistake.)

@Cartman, your usage puts you firmly in the 5%, and you'll be in a very small minority of guys who fit MTs and actually use them according to the specified 80/20 off/on road usage (which is precisely why the Coopers I used failed me so badly - poor choice for the mileage I was doing.)

Yep, 100% if airing down - but one point with the LT's to be aware of is if you have a wide weight or loading range they can smash you for ride quality if you spend a lot of the time near empty but need them up to pick up full loads (side walls just don't flex). I haven't had the issue with AT's left at full pressure - the chains idea is a bloody good one too though. Was at one stage using the Hankook RF10 LT - bloody good and unfortunately seem to be a lot better than the RF11 (not sure why).

Originally Posted by XR500

My Unimog was shod with what would pass as AT's. With axle articulation and diff locks all around it was pretty capable over most surfaces. Clay (and volcanic ash) however was nasty. And the only thing for it was CHAINS. Allowed for less revs, and turned it into a true beast.

Such a simple concept and yet so stunning that we often joked that rubber would only get you so far, but you needed steel to really go anywhere (was also a nod to tracked vehicles)

I'd stay with AT's and just carry chains when the situation dictated.

You probably had MPT-80s on your mog. They are a generally good all round tyre but do lack self clearing properties, I run what are effectively high speed tractor tyres on my Mog,I have a set of MPT-80s with metal studs for the winter.

Chains are trump's for when it gets really sticky or snowy though. I would rather just chain up and leave them on for months though. Putting chains on a tractor for example alone is miserable.

Another thing about good chains,you can use them as a tow rope/ winch line extension.

I have an ECU power upgrade module here if anyone is thinking about fitting one.

PM me for a price is you're interested. You will need a clutch upgrade if you fit it

With chain's for your 4x4 you don't need heavy duty mud chain's the light snow chains work just as well & when use to doing it it take less than 5mins to do all 4 tires. But everyone missing the point bot my tires you got have them for the cool factor even tho most mt tires have never even seen properly mud lol