Thread: Auto vs Manaul utes

@Johnny Utah When you say the service. Do you mean the sales service or the workshop side of things?
I know friends of mine if they buy another toyota it want be local

Originally Posted by Mauser308

With big boat trailers (wind resistance) and heavy TB-class trailers (3500Kg) I'd never have an auto again. Also, I'd never have anything other than a Ranger or BT50 with the 3.2L engine - and to be honest they are borderline too small for the job as well. The auto's are bloody dangerous due to complete lack of anything resembling engine braking on big hills, there's a reason the new Toyota auto's got a rep for burning up front brake discs.

Driving around town light vehicle, doesn't matter what gearbox and auto is convenient there - but when you can't reverse your boat trailer up a hill and round a corner because the ute keeps stalling and you don't have a clutch pedal to feather you have a rather serious and fundamental problem. Know several people who have had that very issue, all are now either running Rangers or light trucks for the work.

Engine size is another issue going hand in hand with stupid high gearing, the bonus with the Ranger transmission is that 6th is not a lot higher than old school 5th but 2nd is slightly higher than old school 1st. But - you have another lower gear in 1st which fixes nearly all sins combined with a halfway acceptable engine size in the 3.2L engine. It doesn't matter how much power the engine makes at full noise, it's the torque just above idle that stops you stalling and most of the new mini-diesels have no torque and are trying to make up for it with multiple hair driers and huge volumes of diesel going through the injectors at high revs and to try to prevent you from chucking too much diesel in, they made the gearing stupid high so it's a lose-lose for functionality.

Also as someone said the majority of utes these days have a stupidly high first cog, and reverse is often higher again. WTF for you might ask? I have no idea either...

Not sure how you manage to stall an auto? I would have fried a clutch or 3 at least if I had a manual by now,my old non turbo hilux was doable backing my boats up my steep drive but still hard on the clutch, no modern ute has a low enough reverse that I know of. The auto handles it a piece of piss and holds back on hills fine if put in manual mode.
None of the modern utes hold back as well (auto or manual) as older high compression engines, compression is lower to handle higher boost pressures but mainly to reduce NOx emissions at idle and low load.

The new Ranger is a 2l twin turbo.....mated to the 10speed auto it should be a good thing....in a manual maybe not so much.

A bit of both it’s funny how yes sir no sir nothings a problem sir untill the money has changed hands and your down the road. unfortunately for my dealer I have two hiluxs one under a business name they have not made the connection between probably because partner drops of picks up etc our family one and we receive very different levels of service.

Workshop wise
Look the way I see it cars have problems they all do they break things time to time have certain faults that’s motoring. All you can ask for is to be straight up and down about it .But what I have Had is a few problems arise And been told it’s fine it’s normal or it’s us general ducking
In regards to the dpf burn off excessive smoking
And when they fix your work truck no questions asked for the same problem but give ya the cold shoulder run around privately it can/will leave a sour taste in your mouth.

The product to this point I like but i have not struck this sort of deniably with Toyota before and I will be honest and say I haven’t bought from the same dealer as the previous models living in different places at the time but it’s a gobal brand and the same product so should to a degree expect consistent service

Yes I know a dealer change could be the answer but as there is have a class action against Toyota in Australia for fobbing people off for this exact problem maybe they are doing as told just

As George w bush said once bitten hummm twice bitten shy or some shit 👍🏻

@Jonny Utah must say your dealer must have his head in the clouds if he can’t connect your number plate to who he’s sold his utes too
Thanks for the feed back on post#47

Originally Posted by Johnny Utah

A bit of both it’s funny how yes sir no sir nothings a problem sir untill the money has changed hands and your down the road. unfortunately for my dealer I have two hiluxs one under a business name they have not made the connection between probably because partner drops of picks up etc our family one and we receive very different levels of service.

Workshop wise
Look the way I see it cars have problems they all do they break things time to time have certain faults that’s motoring. All you can ask for is to be straight up and down about it .But what I have Had is a few problems arise And been told it’s fine it’s normal or it’s us general ducking
In regards to the dpf burn off excessive smoking
And when they fix your work truck no questions asked for the same problem but give ya the cold shoulder run around privately it can/will leave a sour taste in your mouth.

The product to this point I like but i have not struck this sort of deniably with Toyota before and I will be honest and say I haven’t bought from the same dealer as the previous models living in different places at the time but it’s a gobal brand and the same product so should to a degree expect consistent service

Yes I know a dealer change could be the answer but as there is have a class action against Toyota in Australia for fobbing people off for this exact problem maybe they are doing as told just

As George w bush said once bitten hummm twice bitten shy or some shit 👍🏻

This issue seems to be common to most manufacturers, through friends and family I've heard similar issues of denial and ineptitude from Mazda, Land Rover, Suzuki (twice) and multiple general mechanics.

I'm just glad I work on my own vehicles as I don't trust anyone else to have the same amount of care or intrest as I do.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

You stall an auto Hilux or Amarok by trying to back a heavy trailer up up hill and around a corner. You are correct - theoretically it should not be possible, but it appears that without RPM on and turbo(s) spooled up, there isn't enough power in the tiny little sewing machine that they are passing off as an engine to shift the weight without stalling the engine. As I said, going forwards at RPM fine, going real slow but requiring high torque out of the engine at lower than the RPM required to develop turbo power means they cannot handle it.

They should have got a Mitsubishi then only problem I have backing a trailer uphill is tiresmoke.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

They should have got a Mitsubishi then only problem I have backing a trailer uphill is tiresmoke.

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Thats cause you went for the 2wd! Have stalled my 80series auto landcruiser backing a full tandem trailer of gravel up a hill round a corner, Surprised me some what never had it happen again though

Originally Posted by Mauser308

You stall an auto Hilux or Amarok by trying to back a heavy trailer up up hill and around a corner. You are correct - theoretically it should not be possible, but it appears that without RPM on and turbo(s) spooled up, there isn't enough power in the tiny little sewing machine that they are passing off as an engine to shift the weight without stalling the engine. As I said, going forwards at RPM fine, going real slow but requiring high torque out of the engine at lower than the RPM required to develop turbo power means they cannot handle it.

Anytime I've had to back a heavy load in a difficult situation I always stick it in low range, auto or manual, makes for a much more relaxing experience.
A ute/SUV/4wd that doesn't have low range is a townie car.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

Anytime I've had to back a heavy load in a difficult situation I always stick it in low range, auto or manual, makes for a much more relaxing experience.
A ute/SUV/4wd that doesn't have low range is a townie car.

I have a townie car/ no low range as 2wd.
Definitely should not engage 4wd for backing on a hard surface(tarseal/concrete)

Yet another reason I didnt get a manual.

Only the top spec utes run a awd system capable of being used on a high traction surface....Mitsi Benz Vw etc

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I have a townie car/ no low range as 2wd.
Definitely should not engage 4wd for backing on a hard surface(tarseal/concrete)

Yet another reason I didnt get a manual.

Only the top spec utes run a awd system capable of being used on a high traction surface....Mitsi Benz Vw etc

Sorry, as a Land Rover owner I forget peasants dont get 2wd low or non locked 4wd.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

Sorry, as a Land Rover owner I forget peasants dont get 2wd low or non locked 4wd.

as a land rover owner you also appreciate the value of sawdust on the garage floor

Originally Posted by gonetropo

as a land rover owner you also appreciate the value of sawdust on the garage floor

I certainly don't get much rust in the engine bay.....

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Not much chop engaging low range on blacktop, instant bind up and crab. And reverse gear ratio is the issue, not all wheel drive or whatever VW/Benz/Whatever brand you favour. Too higher reverse means too much power required and no go going backwards... The torque converter locks up when the load comes on, but the engine isn't developing the required power and can't hit the required RPM even though you are demanding high fuel/power generation from the donkey - big throttle pedal input.

The ECU won't inject the fuel as the motor isn't developing RPM, no power with locked up torque converter = stall. And you look like a dick holding up traffic... At least a clutch pedal allows you to feather until you have some RPM up and the engine can produce some power. Other dodge is rev the engine in neutral to try and spool the turbo up so that when you go into gear you can get enough power to start reversing, but that is hard on the box and sometimes results in wheel spin.

In this case, yes you are scewed if you can't use low range.
Even off road, the newest Amaroks don't have a transfer box so whilst 1st gear might be extra low, reverse will still be an issue.

In light of this and thinking about the stupid places I've towed stuff, I don't think I'll ditch the green oval anytime soon!

Mauser 308, to tow 3.5 tonnes behind the ranger here in Oz you have to have it and the boat trailer fitted with electronic brakes. I assume the same in NZ. Properly adjusted on a tandem trailer they should take a lot of the breaking load off the ute in my experience.

got an auto ranger and a manual amarok........ prefer the vw for some reason