Thread: Hilux hybrid.4wd vs dmax ls 4wd

meanwhile, my Ssangyong just keeps trucking on at half the price

Yes I guess you have to decide what’s in scope, lots of Chinese utes out there now also plus the Kia coming along.


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Autos are so much nicer to drive than manuals, I don’t know why anyone even considered manuals these days.

I’ve heard from a Nissan mechanic to stay away from the new Navara.

Not sure if I’d be keen on a hybrid hilux, I’d be sticking to a standard diesel one. Most people buy a Toyota because of their proven reliability rather than all the bells and whistles.
I work on mine sites in WA and 95% on vehicles on site are Toyota’s. Land cruisers, prados and hilux’s, very rarely do you ever see a ranger.

I don’t think you guys have much idea of what the Hilux “hybrid” system actually is. It is not that much different to a standard diesel Hilux. It effectively just has an electric motor belt driving the crankshaft on the standard diesel engine, and a small 48V battery under a rear seat to power the electric motor.

Totally different to the hybrid system in other Toyotas, and cannot run on electricity alone.

Originally Posted by Sauer

I don’t think you guys have much idea of what the Hilux “hybrid” system actually is. It is not that much different to a standard diesel Hilux. It effectively just has an electric motor belt driving the crankshaft on the standard diesel engine, and a small 48V battery under a rear seat to power the electric motor.

Totally different to the hybrid system in other Toyotas, and cannot run on electricity alone.

Which means that for everything EXCEPT stop-start driving in traffic the system is completely useless, and only costing you money in fuel burn and wear and tear due to the extra weight you are lugging around and that extra weight simply costs you payload. Completely stupid and ill-conceived, incompetently executed and only good for the advertising teams to spout crap at you. It is really that bad.

What Toyota should have done, was incorporate a motor assembly into the driveshaft or on the rear diff or the back of the transfer case so that the thing could be utilised to help the vehicle off the line reducing wear and tear and provide some additional engine braking ability again minimising wear and tear. As it stands, unless you are an 'urban warrior' or your job is in town in peak and stop-start traffic you are paying huge $$$ for useless weight.

Also, that small 48v battery isn't under the rear seat, it's under the rear tray and apparently has to come out to allow things like towbars to be fitted. A couple of the hybrid hiluxes have created issues with the anti-theft setup and the 48v batteries not liking being removed which stopped the hybrid system from functioning as the anti theft setup refused to play once the battery was refitted and had to be replaced/reset/farted about with to make it work again.

Originally Posted by No.3

Which means that for everything EXCEPT stop-start driving in traffic the system is completely useless, and only costing you money in fuel burn and wear and tear due to the extra weight you are lugging around and that extra weight simply costs you payload. Completely stupid and ill-conceived, incompetently executed and only good for the advertising teams to spout crap at you. It is really that bad.

What Toyota should have done, was incorporate a motor assembly into the driveshaft or on the rear diff or the back of the transfer case so that the thing could be utilised to help the vehicle off the line reducing wear and tear and provide some additional engine braking ability again minimising wear and tear. As it stands, unless you are an 'urban warrior' or your job is in town in peak and stop-start traffic you are paying huge $$$ for useless weight.

Also, that small 48v battery isn't under the rear seat, it's under the rear tray and apparently has to come out to allow things like towbars to be fitted. A couple of the hybrid hiluxes have created issues with the anti-theft setup and the 48v batteries not liking being removed which stopped the hybrid system from functioning as the anti theft setup refused to play once the battery was refitted and had to be replaced/reset/farted about with to make it work again.

The one we looked at was definitely under the seat ?

Dmax manual owner here. goes well but gutted the tyres scrubbed out at 25k as wheel alignment was off from factory.

Originally Posted by No.3

Which means that for everything EXCEPT stop-start driving in traffic the system is completely useless, and only costing you money in fuel burn and wear and tear due to the extra weight you are lugging around and that extra weight simply costs you payload. Completely stupid and ill-conceived, incompetently executed and only good for the advertising teams to spout crap at you. It is really that bad.

What Toyota should have done, was incorporate a motor assembly into the driveshaft or on the rear diff or the back of the transfer case so that the thing could be utilised to help the vehicle off the line reducing wear and tear and provide some additional engine braking ability again minimising wear and tear. As it stands, unless you are an 'urban warrior' or your job is in town in peak and stop-start traffic you are paying huge $$$ for useless weight.

Also, that small 48v battery isn't under the rear seat, it's under the rear tray and apparently has to come out to allow things like towbars to be fitted. A couple of the hybrid hiluxes have created issues with the anti-theft setup and the 48v batteries not liking being removed which stopped the hybrid system from functioning as the anti theft setup refused to play once the battery was refitted and had to be replaced/reset/farted about with to make it work again.

Just about everything you’ve written there is incorrect.

The electric motor does assist the vehicle off the line as the electric motor is also driving the crankshaft when you’re accelerating. I don’t understand why you think putting the electric motor further down the drivetrain would be more efficient.

The electric motor, like all hybrids is a motor/generator combined so it does provide a measure of engine braking under deceleration as the engine is driving a generator to recharge the battery. You don’t get this energy from nothing, it has to come from increased deceleration. This is a pretty fundamental concept for any hybrid and to claim it somehow doesn’t work for the Hilux is certainly questionable.

You are completely incorrect about the placement of the battery. It is under a rear seat. You need to stop reading Facebook mate, the battery does not need to be removed to install a towbar. That is just complete bollocks.

Many modern cars have issues with disconnecting batteries, this is not unique to Toyota. I’m not sure why you would want to disconnect the 48V battery as it is not something you can service your self in any way.

either way all that extra system is another failure point imagine in 10 years time 2x the shit to worry about braking down, most modern cars are to complicated for their own good use to be just the euro stuff now its all of them

Originally Posted by XR500

Man, you guys make it really really hard for us 1990's Nissan patrol/Toyota Landcruiser guys to look forward to a new truck! The power and bells and whistles may be fine and dandy, but the gremlins and electronic dramas sound like anathema to me. I am retired and in no hurry to be anywhere quicker than I need to be.

Mate has 2002*Hilux with 5hundy on clock. His sil chewing his ear about needing an upgrade. Response...does your new work Hilux have 3 dead deer on the back tray.*

I’ve got a 22 Hilux which is the last of them before Hybrid. It wasn’t as flash as the others at the time which was reflected in it being about 10k cheaper to its equivalent competitors at the time. I like the simplicity of it though. It’s a solid truck that I feel happy to hold onto as long as I want to. The Dmax for all i’ve seen is a solid vehicle too. I have driven my hilux alongside my father in laws dmax on the same day a few times. His dmax is nicer inside with a bit more tech and nicer steering but my hilux is stronger in the engine department. Not sure if I would do a hybrid hilux, haven’t looked at them so can’t speak to it.

I personally never considered any 2.0L ute. I’ve never been a fan of the smaller displacement pumping out the same performance figures.

Originally Posted by stagstalker

I personally never considered any 2.0L ute. I’ve never been a fan of the smaller displacement pumping out the same performance figures.

Same, that’s why I’ll stick to my 3.2 Ranger, dealer rings occasionally asking if I want to trade up, I keep telling him when they bring the 3.0 V6 in the XLT I’ll think about it

Maybe in the next couple.weeks there will be a run out or a special in regards to new year
sales. I'll go up to whangarei this week have a look around.

Originally Posted by Sauer

Just about everything you’ve written there is incorrect.

The electric motor does assist the vehicle off the line as the electric motor is also driving the crankshaft when you’re accelerating. I don’t understand why you think putting the electric motor further down the drivetrain would be more efficient.

The electric motor, like all hybrids is a motor/generator combined so it does provide a measure of engine braking under deceleration as the engine is driving a generator to recharge the battery. You don’t get this energy from nothing, it has to come from increased deceleration. This is a pretty fundamental concept for any hybrid and to claim it somehow doesn’t work for the Hilux is certainly questionable.

You are completely incorrect about the placement of the battery. It is under a rear seat. You need to stop reading Facebook mate, the battery does not need to be removed to install a towbar. That is just complete bollocks.

Many modern cars have issues with disconnecting batteries, this is not unique to Toyota. I’m not sure why you would want to disconnect the 48V battery as it is not something you can service your self in any way.

You tell that to the Toyota dealer that used that as an excuse as to why the hybrid system was inoperative after fitting a towbar at presale. No facebook there mate at all. The claim was that disconnecting the hybrid system triggered the antitheft setup requiring the battery to be replaced. If it is bollocks as you say, nail in the coffin of that dealer for spouting shite - top Toyota service (again).

And the electric system in the Hilux hybrid does not offer any form of engine braking assistance at all, period - tested with a max weight trailer on behind the vehicle. Complete crap. Manual 3.2L Ranger has some (but not a huge amount) of engine braking, 3.2L auto ranger not as much as the manual but still a little, the biturbos no noticeable braking effect, hilux non-hybrid (but earlier gen vehicle) had between the ranger 3.2L manual and auto's and the hilux hybrid just had nothing. Basically freewheeled, even with a hydraulic override trailer behind the coupling did not activate the trailer's brakes and the vehicle just ran away (this with the transmission in 'D', just driving for the auto's, manual ranger either 3rd or 4th selected to suit). The only vehicle that did not end up with any temperature increase on the brake discs with the hydraulic override brakes after this test was the hilux hybrid, indicating no applied hydraulic caliper pressure and thus no braking effort on the trailer at all. For those not understanding how override couplings work, the trailer compresses a spring in the coupling if it runs into the rear of the tow vehicle which pushes on the trailer brake operating cylinder to create hydraulic pressure in the brake system. So if the vehicle has engine braking, the trailer will run forward and apply the brakes. No brakes applied, no engine braking - simple.

So either the hilux used during this was defective or the design is crap, and the dealer is happy with the performance of the thing so... I personally would not have been, uses a heap of fuel for what the job it's doing is and it's had more than it's fair share of dealer induced clusters. Much cheaper than some of the other options though. Can't comment on the design assisting vehicle starting off the line - I have not experienced this at any point and towing trailers with it doesn't show any noticeable improvement over the non-hybrid hiluxes. Putting the motor further down the line allows it to offer a LOT more assistance without wear and risk to components further up, simple. The transmission is now a weak point in the Hilux hybrid design - placing the electric system after this protects the transmission - simple. If that is hard to understand - well...